tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post4309653071260983750..comments2023-10-31T06:31:41.395-04:00Comments on Bottom of the Barrel: LeBron James Is An Asshole/Competitor/Sending A Message By Not Shaking Hands With the MagicBengoodfellahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09401971573776672570noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-5811640543138243522009-06-04T09:31:18.652-04:002009-06-04T09:31:18.652-04:00I need to hire someone to do research for this blo...I need to hire someone to do research for this blog. Kind of like Stat Boy for PTI. I would bet that they may have been extra inning games because that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. <br /><br />I was not trying to defend LeBron James but I have been angry enough after a sporting event to not shake an opponent's hand, and that was in tennis and that is a HUGE no-no. The guy was a cheating asshole so I didn't even feel bad. <br /><br />I haven't worked 12 hour shifts in a factory or anything but I can imagine I would just want to go to bed. I would skip the beer and sleep.Bengoodfellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09401971573776672570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-59519565852893881582009-06-04T09:07:44.228-04:002009-06-04T09:07:44.228-04:00I wonder if those two games were extra-inning affa...I wonder if those two games were extra-inning affairs or something. If it's the 14th, there may not have been anyone else to pitch.<br /><br />I don't think LeBron put that much thought into it. I think we was just pissed at a variety of people, including himself, and would have been just as likely to suckerpunch someone as shake their hand.<br /><br />I have worked 12-hour shifts in a factory, and I didn't want to shake anyone's hand when I got off work. I wanted to have a couple of beers and go to sleep.The Caseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03323030436625176444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-4342262582957993292009-06-04T08:18:26.171-04:002009-06-04T08:18:26.171-04:00Fred, fine hit me with logic. I still think it wou...Fred, fine hit me with logic. I still think it would be cool if a player tried to perfect the knuckleball like Wakefield. They spend so much time on all the other pitches and if they spent time seeing if they could throw a good knuckler, it would be fun to watch. <br /><br />Martin, I think the Magic were clearly the better team, no matter how the game was officiated. The games were close but the Magic ended up winning them, so I give them credit. I think I am bored with defending LeBron at this point. He acted like a baby and he decided leaving the court and not shaking hands and doing a press conference was the lesser of two evils, rather than saying something he would regret. He may have been wrong. <br /><br />That's a pretty good list, though Chris W and I discussed this a couple of weeks ago and we would replace Spahn with Koufax. You are right they are the ying and yang because one person had prolonged success and the other person had short success that was pretty awesome, so which one is better? I think we decided in this situation we would go with the short success. Really, there is no way to be wrong anyway. <br /><br />A manager today would never put Koufax in for two appearances in relief. The fans and writers would tear him apart. It is hard to put a reliever in the category of top pitchers of all time, though I think Rivera would be the one who could make it if we did that. Imagine Bob Feller's numbers if he did not go to WWII...<br /><br />Overall, pretty good list, though I would move Seaver up the list a little and try to sneak Tom Glavine in there somewhere just to be a homer.Bengoodfellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09401971573776672570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-44580928328120520172009-06-04T05:18:14.593-04:002009-06-04T05:18:14.593-04:00Tossing out game 3, which I didn't see, but le...Tossing out game 3, which I didn't see, but let's say it was a badly officiated game. I did see 6, and the officiating didn't seem any worse then any other game in these playoffs. Based on that, the Magic are still better 60% of the time. 3-2. Just because a game could have gone either way means nothing. The Magic won. If the Magic win 10 games in a row that could have gone either way, are we suppossed to believe that the Cavs are the better team? The giving of more credit to the team that LOST close games then the team that WON 2 of the 3 close games is silly. The not shaking hands doesn't mean squat to me, but the fact that he could shower, get dressed and still be a pouting sore loser by not addressing the media is evidence that this was more then just a spur of the moment thing. This was someone who was pissed that he lost, and showed no respect for anybody else involved, on his own team, in the NBA, or on the Magic by leaving like a 12 year old who didn't get the last piece of pizza.<br /><br />On the other hand...Top 10 Pitchers<br />in no particular order.<br /><br />Lefty Grove<br />Grover Alexander<br />Walter Johnson<br />Christy Matthewson<br />Steve Carlton<br />Bob Gibson<br />Warren Spahn<br />Randy Johnson<br />Pedro Martinez<br />Greg Maddux<br /><br />Special Mention, Sandy Koufax<br /><br />Cy Young, Roger Clemens. One was truly dominate, but in an era that was so completely different as to almost be another game with Young. The other could take the place of 3-5 guys on that list, but someone had to get left out, and the guy who has looked so pathetic during the PED scandal gets the nod. <br /><br />Spahn and Koufax are to me a sort of yin and yang. Spahn has his overall stats weighed down by some down years the last couple years he was active, but was a model of high end consistancy for years. Koufax was absolutly brilliant for 5 full years in his career, to the point that it overwhelms a sluggish start to his injury shortened playing days. Astounding fact about him, in his second to last year, he started 41 games, completed 27 and he had 2 saves. Somehow his manager thought a guy with a chronicly bad elbow should be relieving twice in that year. At his peak 4 years, he might have been the best pitcher ever. I jsut don't think that those 5 fantastic years are enough to make him in the 10 Best though. <br /><br />One thing I think this list shows is that any modern reliever in the top 20 best pitchers ever is probably a stretch. A pretty big stretch. Guys who got left off...<br /><br />Whitey Ford<br />Nolan Ryan<br />Juan Marichal<br />Carl Hubbell<br />Tom Seaver<br />Jim Palmer<br />Bob Feller, who lost 4 of the prime years of his fighting in WW2.<br /><br />There's 20 right there.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00086638597582394978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-11190261595146312842009-06-03T22:59:58.077-04:002009-06-03T22:59:58.077-04:00I think because a knuckleball is insanely tough to...I think because a knuckleball is insanely tough to throw, and to master it is a whole different story. The sox brought up a pitcher, Charlie Zink, who featured a knuckleball. Only problem was it just kind of dropped like a curveball, instead of dancing like Wakefields does, so he got smacked around. R.A Dickey is another one to feature the knuckler and if you look up his career stats you will find that just because you throw a knuckler, doesnt mean you will have success. Unless your names are Niekro, Wilhelm, Wood, Candiotti, Hough, or Wakefield.Fred Triggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16980604002168881166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-42197740395345171242009-06-03T22:23:16.710-04:002009-06-03T22:23:16.710-04:00Why don't more pitchers throw a knuckleball? I...Why don't more pitchers throw a knuckleball? If you perfect it, then you have a great chance at success in the majors. Of course first you have to perfect it, but it is easier on the arm and it is tough as shit to hit, unless you are Aaron Boone.Bengoodfellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09401971573776672570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-19671329030745078612009-06-03T22:22:10.702-04:002009-06-03T22:22:10.702-04:00I looked at Henke and thought Reardon was a little...I looked at Henke and thought Reardon was a little better based on the numbers, though I could of course be wrong. I think Hoyt Wilhelm is a player on a game I used to play and I liked pitching with him because of that knuckleball. The list of relievers was kind of difficult for me. <br /><br />My only real point, regardless of which team was better, is that LeBron was probably pretty pissed off after losing to the Magic and did not want to say or do anything that he would later regret. Not that it excuses his not shaking their hands after the game, but in the end he may not have felt up to discussing the loss at that point. It may make him a baby in the eyes of many. <br /><br />I don't think it was right to leave his teammates hanging in the wind like that and defending him at a press conference but they left him hanging many times this year. I would say they owe him one when he is not in the mood to talk. As I said before, I think reporters and columnists just really wanted LeBron to bash his teammates so they would have something to talk about. I don't know if he took the high road but he definitely made sure his kept his negative emotions of the limelight. <br /><br />Jeremy, unfortunately you are like me. Positive reinforcement for kids is a good thing so they don't grow up and think everyone hates them, but when I meet some kids these days I think they need a little bit less reinforcement and some reality checks. That's a different story I guess than what we are talking about. <br /><br />Please don't give me free rein to accuse Vince Carter of stealing money or anything of the like. I will completely take you up on that. He could never be Michael Jordan, but he also doesn't give a shit about even trying. <br /><br />Ivn, I will agree with you about the Cavs blowing those leads. I don't know if that is a sign they are the better team, of course they also had big leads to blow, so at some point in the game they got it together, but lost it I guess. I don't have a real strong case on this one, I realize that, but saying the other team is not better is either being a sore loser or having too much confidence when you can't back it up. The walking off the court thing did not bother me that much really, I just think everyone wanted a show and he did not gite it to them.Bengoodfellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09401971573776672570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-83451137313526133502009-06-03T22:11:36.712-04:002009-06-03T22:11:36.712-04:00Add me to those giving props to Hoyt Wilhelm. It&...Add me to those giving props to Hoyt Wilhelm. It's very difficult to compare relievers of the older era, who were expected to pitch a lot longer in a game than today, but Hoyt was a helluva pitcher. You've also got to admire a guy who hits a home run in his first at bat in the majors, says "done that" and never does it again, even though he played forever. :-)<br /><br />Watching guys like Niekro, Wilhelm, Wilbur Wood, etc. throw the knuckler was something else. When they were on, they could make the ball do strange things. My wife was a huge Phil Niekro fan; after the Braves treated him badly in 1983, she turned against them and has never gotten over it.KentAllardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16034050997693995004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-58733476032651788372009-06-03T19:24:12.772-04:002009-06-03T19:24:12.772-04:00Jeremy, I see what you mean, but saying something ...Jeremy, I see what you mean, but saying something like "why should I congratulate Orlando for doing something that, in my opinion, doesn't deserve congratulating. Nothing in those 6 games told me that Orlando was a better team," is pretty much a textbook case being in a sore loser. Cleveland is the better team for running up the score on the likes of the New Jersey Nets and the Memphis Grizzlies? A better team for sweeping a sub-.500 "playoff" team? Give me a break. Isn't saying "three of those games could have gone the other way!" is essentially admitting that one team was better than the other?<br /><br />if you blow three 20-point leads in one playoff series you really aren't the better team, I'm sorry.<br /><br />what annoys me about the LeBron situation is more about how the MVP and Cleveland's team "leader" (well, he at least leads them into singing and dancing to Rick fucking Astley when they're blowing someone out; when they lose it's obviously everyone else's fault) completely blew off his team and left them twisting in the wind after they lost.ivnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-16831458956279979012009-06-03T19:02:21.548-04:002009-06-03T19:02:21.548-04:00I have to defend LeBron, because if I'm in tha...I have to defend LeBron, because if I'm in that situation, I would do the exact same thing. And it isn't being a sore loser. It really isn't.<br /><br />If I'm LeBron, why should I congratulate Orlando for doing something that, in my opinion, doesn't deserve congratulating. Nothing in those 6 games told me that Orlando was a better team. There were three games that could have gone either way and were complete washes (Games 1, 2, and 4). Games 5 and 6 cancel each other out (and I'm leaving out some mildly questionable officiating in Game 6), and Game 3 was the single worst officiated game from every standpoint since Game 5 of the '06 Finals. I can draw no conclusions from those games. <br /><br />Therefore, I'm going to go with what I can draw conclusions from, the regular season and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs, and in both cases, Cleveland performed better, period. So, in my opinion, Cleveland had the superior team. So what am I congratulating Orlando on? Being the beneficiary of horrific officiating? I don't see how that makes sense. <br /><br />And at least to me, the problem extends beyond sports. This country's economy is going down the tubes, and one of the reasons is we promote people just for showing up for work every day. We're rewarding mediocrity when we shouldn't be. Let's say 10 years from now I have a son, and he goes 0-4 with 4 strikeouts in his Little League game. Should I tell him he played well? Of course not! I should say he tried his best, or he gave good effort, or whatever. Why are we treating everyone the same when we have hundreds of thousands of years of evidence that tell us that everyone isn't the same? <br /><br />Professional athletes are competitive. They don't like to lose. We expect them to compete to their fullest abilities during the game. But as soon as the game is over, we should pretend that the same hyper-competitive athletes aren't affected by whether they won or lost? Does that make any sense? Why should LeBron go over and admit to Dwight Howard that the Magic out-played them in Game 6? Dwight Howard is his adversary. It's in LeBron's best interest as a basketball player to try to gain any advantage he can, whether it's physical or mental. Why should he hand over that psychological advantage to Howard? If I'm LeBron, I don't want Howard to think that he can beat me. I want him to think that he can only beat me with help from the refs. <br /><br />And if I'm a parent, I'm not showing my kids the NBA for a lesson in sportsmanship. I'm showing them the NBA so that they can see the best athletes on the planet perform extraordinary tasks. It's not LeBron's job to teach kids good sportsmanship. That's my job, as a parent. And if my son wants to act like that, I tell him that he can, once he signs a $110 Million contract in the NBA. <br /><br />If you want to criticize someone in the NBA, point your finger at guys like Vince Carter and Larry Hughes, who have essentially been stealing NBA paychecks for the better part of 10 years. Their job is to win basketball games, and they perform their job poorly. They have the ability to perform their job well, but they choose not to. If you're going to criticize, criticize them.<br /><br />End of Rambling.Jeremy Conlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999218325324667964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-51006462077835869102009-06-03T18:45:10.496-04:002009-06-03T18:45:10.496-04:00Don't be talking smack about my boy Hoyt! And ...Don't be talking smack about my boy Hoyt! And yes I have no idea why he's a guy who I knew about and could discuss ever since I was young. Maybe because he was such an oddity as a relief pitcher. I've always thought since though that he's a sports geek kinda player. Nobody else would know who the hell he is, but once you've seen what he did, ya just kinda have to roll with it whenever he's brought up in a discussion like this one. <br /><br />You're list is solid Ben, I might shuffle a couple guys aorund, but at that point it's adjusting ribbon on a wrapped package. The only guy I might change would be Tom Henke instead of Reardon.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00086638597582394978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-47847733826386262192009-06-03T14:53:20.432-04:002009-06-03T14:53:20.432-04:00AJ, I am glad you got fired up about this, it'...AJ, I am glad you got fired up about this, it's always good to see. You have a valid argument when you talk about how he preens before the game and puts on a big show, but when he gets beat he doesn't stick around to talk about it. I guess it is somewhat analogous to Papelbon throwing a towel at the camera, except LeBron may have walked off to prevent that. On that end, you do have a point and I do think not shaking hands with the Cavs was a bitch thing to do. <br /><br />I see what you are saying, but I think part of the reasoning for my point of view is pure speculation. I am assuming that LeBron wasn't just being an asshole and was going to say or do something he would regret after the game. I think the media secretly/not so secretly wanted to see him blow up and give them a story to cover...but I guess his walking off did that as well. <br /><br />I think relievers are overrated in the category of statistics. Obviously, you need a good bullpen to have a good team in baseball, but the saves category is very misleading, as are some of the other categories that relievers get judged upon. It does rely on the position a reliever is put in and how good his team is. <br /><br />Rivera is a clear #1, though I was surprised how good Wilhelm was. I probably knew how good he was when I was 9 years old but I had forgotten about him.Bengoodfellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09401971573776672570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-86375050028962369272009-06-03T14:35:54.782-04:002009-06-03T14:35:54.782-04:00I don't care for James much and I really don&#...I don't care for James much and I really don't care if he went up to the Magic after he lost. What I do care about is his piss poor attitude and the way he acts, not to mention the fact he can not define something that is simple to define. <br /><br />He said he wasn't being a poor sport by not going up to the Magic after because you don't do that to people that beat you up. I'm just going to assume he means beat, and not beat up, since he did not get into any fights or anything like that. Being a poor sport is exactly what he was, and maybe if he had any sort of education he would know that.<br /><br />This is a guy that act like a complete clown by dancing around and making sure he is the center of attention before and during games, but when things don't go his way he completely changes and acts like a jackass. It's like all of a sudden he just turned on his teammates after realizing they were playing way over their skill level the whole year. A superstar would not run away like he did, would face his mandatory media sessions, and take his beating like a pro. He gets played to play a game, you win and you lose, if you can't take that then find something else to do. <br /><br />As far as relief guys, I'm not going to disagree with your list or anything like that...I just don't have the info to make a top 10 list on them, since I believe it's the most over rated position in baseball. Its to hard to compare eras, considering now they just pitch 1 inning and sometimes even less then that. You are only as good as your team is, and you are only valuable in one inning of one game. Sometimes you don't even pitch for a week, sometimes you just pitch when the game is out of hand and you need to get work in. <br /><br />But I do agree, I believe Rivera is the best "closer" of all time. The guys stats speak for themselves.AJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16973629881511639449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-37800355489300044712009-06-03T14:09:05.236-04:002009-06-03T14:09:05.236-04:00The Cavs would be totally confused, though if ther...The Cavs would be totally confused, though if there is a basketball team in Poughkeepsie, LeBron may be better off choosing that team over the Knicks.Bengoodfellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09401971573776672570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-102327997051254703.post-76969587602736321892009-06-03T13:24:17.840-04:002009-06-03T13:24:17.840-04:00What if Lebron had stumbled slightly, transforming...What if Lebron had stumbled slightly, transforming his "I'm going to New York next year" walk into "I'm going to Poughkeepsie next year."? Imagine how confused the Cavs would be.KentAllardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16034050997693995004noreply@blogger.com