Showing posts with label kurt warner. Show all posts
Showing posts with label kurt warner. Show all posts

Monday, February 1, 2010

10 comments MMQB Review: The Dead Week Edition

This is the first Monday in a few months there wasn't football the weekend before of some kind. Yes, I don't include the Pro Bowl as "football" because of all the all-star games in all of the major sports, and I am including hockey in there, it's the most pointless. Basketball is at least a little fun to watch when the players don't give a shit. So what does Peter talk about today? Is he going to have an entire column with his aggravating travel notes, will he recommend some different coffees to his readers, or will he finally acknowledge there was an AFC Championship Game last week? Did I think there would come a day when Peter would ignore the Jets and the Colts playing in a big game? No, I didn't...but he did. (Interesting thought: Why doesn't the NFL just play the AFC and NFC Championship Games on different days? Like Saturday or Sunday? I feel rushed on AFC/NFC Championship Sunday having two important games just minutes apart.)

Let's just say we know it was a slower NFL news week when an unconfirmed injury leads of MMQB.

We've got ourselves a story. When the Indianapolis Colts take the practice field Wednesday, everyone who follows the NFL will be interested in learning if Dwight Freeney will be in any kind of shape to play in Super Bowl 44 Sunday against New Orleans.

(cue dramatic music: Dum-dum-dum-dum)

This is a classic staredown between two camps that have a history of lying. Do we believe ESPN and Adam Schefter, who works for ESPN and part of the job responsibility when working for them is to get stories incorrect from time-to-time? Or do we believe the Colts, who have every reason in the world to lie about Freeney's health in order to keep the competitive advantage of making the Saints think he will be out there?

The Colts Sunday night described Freeney's right-ankle injury as a low-ankle sprain. ESPN described it as a serious injury that could keep the standout defensive end out of the Super Bowl, an injury that includes torn ankle ligaments.

As important as this injury is to the Colts, it really doesn't matter to non-Colts fans. All Freeney's injury does to the rest of the world is make it harder to predict who is going to win this game. Also, the Colts described it as a third-degree ankle sprain, which is apparently torn ligaments, or so says ESPN.

If the injury is a Grade 3 ligament injury, sports-injury expert Will Carroll says it means there are ligaments in Freeney's ankle that are more than 50 percent torn. How quickly they can heal after being hurt near the end of the AFC Championship Game ... well, the answer is, not quickly enough, most likely. This is all conjecture now, but I'd expect Freeney will do everything he can to play, and will try to play.

I don't know Peter, are you sure Dwight Freeney is going to do everything he can to play in the Super Bowl? I thought he may take this week off and see if he could make it back for the 5th annual Freeney Family Barbeque in a couple of weeks to play in the flag football game with his relatives. As much as bragging rights are won in these hard fought contests.

I surveyed the AFC locker room last night after the Pro Bowl to see how much of a factor the loss of Freeney would be. The answers were predictable. "This is huge for the Saints if he can't play,'' Ray Lewis said. "Freeney's one of the biggest difference-makers in the league.''

Thanks Ray. I am glad Peter King went to the most analytical and intuitive minds around NFL football, the players themselves, to find out how important the loss of Dwight Freeney would be. Anytime I need to hear a cliche or hyperbole, I know I can count on an NFL player to do that for me. Peter also notes that the answers were "predictable." So the point of this exercise was...?

Here is a little note to Peter King: If you can't figure out how important Dwight Freeney is to the Colts or how big of a loss to the Colts Freeney's injury is, perhaps you are in the wrong profession or need to pay more attention. Really, Peter has to ASK someone how much of a factor not having Freeney on the field would be for the Colts? He can't figure this out for himself? If it was so obvious, why did he ask?

I guess I'm the lucky one; I'm the Pro Football Writers Association's AFC pool reporter, assigned to watch Colts practices and write a daily report for the assembled media on their activities.

I like how Peter slipped that little honor he received in there on us.

"Oh by the way, I am not sure if you heard or not, or have any information about this...but I am pretty fucking important and people know me in the world of the NFL. You are lucky I am even writing this column write now. I should be fondling strippers and doing cocaine off the ass of a hooker because that's what people of my stature do. Care for some cotton candy?"

To those who say defense is an equal part of the game, I say, Why have only seven of the 460-some overtime coin-flip winners in NFL history chosen to play defense first if it's such an equal part of the game?

Because the point of overtime is to score points and most teams find it easier to score points when they are on offense. No one is really saying in overtime defense is an equal part of the game, though that could be argued, it has just been said that playing defense is part of an NFL game as well. So theoretically, the defense of a team should be able to stop the other team's offense in overtime.

This morning I've enlisted former Naval pilot Brian Burke, founder of the site Advance NFL Stats, to make a case about why he thinks the overtime rule should be changed.

Over the past decade, there were 158 overtime games, including the playoffs. There were two ties, and there was one game in which the coin flip winner chose to defend a side of the field rather than choosing to receive. (The Lions in 2002. They lost.) In 96 of the 158 overtimes, or 61 percent, the coin flip winner won the game. And in 58 of the 158 OTs, or 37 percent, the coin flip winner won on their first possession while the loser never touched the ball.

First, a quick and easy improvement would be to restore the kickoff line to the 35 for the overtime kickoff. This would essentially cause lots of touchbacks, forcing the offense of the coin-flip winner to start on the 20, instead of the 30 or so. It sounds like a small difference, but teams with first downs at their own 20 are no more likely to score next than the team currently on defense.

What? That's no fun. A quick and easy improvement? What will all the football sportswriters do when it comes time to write about the NFL overtime? Where are all the convoluted and overly difficult overtime suggestions going to go?

How about there are no kickoffs in overtime and the offense starts at the 20 yard line? I bet we won't hear bitching about the absence of special teams from people who last week who complained about the Vikings full team not deciding the overtime. Those people probably don't count special teams as part of an actual football team.

How about the coin flip is decided at the beginning of the game and the ball starts at the 20 yard line? Is this too easy?

By just getting past a team's own 30-yard line, the team on offense now has a 60 percent chance of scoring next -- exactly the odds we see in the current OT format. Moving the kickoff spot back to the 35 would give both the coin flip winner and loser about an equal chance of winning.

The NFL would never adopt this. It's too easy. Assuming these numbers are accurate, making this adjustment makes sense. I don't even care if there is a kickoff at all, I just want everyone to quit whining about the overtime system.

My feeling is it'll take a one-possession game in the Super Bowl to get any real sentiment to change.

Fortunately, Peter is wrong about things, so maybe he is wrong about this.

One more thing: I knew the winner of the coin clip in New Orleans in the NFC Championship Game would win the game on the first possession. In the stadium, you could just feel it. It was a rock-'em, sock-'em-robot kind of game, and the two teams were absolutely spent by the end of regulation.

Of course Peter knew this. He probably also "knew" this during the Arizona-Green Bay game in the playoffs a few weeks ago and it didn't exactly happen the way everyone thought it would. The Cardinals defense actually made a stop and won the game WITHOUT THE CARDINALS OFFENSE EVERY TOUCHING THE BALL! Amazing! Defense CAN win games in overtime.

You know with all my bitching about overtime, at some point my favorite team is going to lose an important game in overtime and I am going to have to quietly steam. It's going to suck and I am going to blame it on missed calls instead of the actual overtime. Actually, this what I don't get...everyone is so focused on how the NFL overtime was unfair to the Vikings. I think everyone should be focused on the bad pass interference call and questionable catch that was ruled as a catch in overtime. If I were a sportswriter, I would see those two calls had a lot to do with the Saints loss as well.

"I think both Brett [Favre] and Percy [Harvin] were finished by halftime,'' one Viking told me. And the defenses were dragging to the finish line.

Brett Favre. Peter King has mentioned Brett Favre in every MMQB dating back to at least December 2008. Every. Single. Week...he has mentioned something about Brett Favre. I wonder what Deanna and Breleigh thought about their dad getting tired during the game? Isn't there someone who can find this out and quote them? What does little Breleigh think about her daddy being tired? I need to know this!!!

Brett Favre is 40 years old. Him getting tired at the end of a season is a risk you take by having him on the team. Percy Harvin is a rookie who isn't used to playing this long of a season. A rookie hitting a wall at the end of a year is a risk you take by having him on the team. Sympathy denied.

The five things I consider particularly amazing about the Kurt Warner Story:

1. It's the most amazing story in football in a half-century. I don't say that lightly.

Yes you do Peter. You do say this lightly.

Warner, an undrafted free-agent in Packers camp in 1994, was cut by Green Bay and went to work for $5.50 an hour stocking shelves in a Cedar Falls, Iowa, grocery store.

I like Kurt Warner and I thought he did a great job of retiring (it's sad I have to say that these days), but what I find amazing is that Kurt Warner had no fallback job other than stocking shelves in a grocery store. I don't really find this amazing, but more depressing. Did he not care to use his college degree or did he not acquire a skill set to do something else to support his family? This has bothered me for over a decade now.

3. As quickly as he came, he just as quickly vanished. From 2002 to 2006, a five-year window, he was brittle and seemed to fall to earth. With the Giants and Cards, he seemed to settle into a nice little backup role. But inside he seethed and wouldn't accept being relegated to second-string. I call it the five-year Donut Hole in the middle of his career.

Obviously Peter would have a food-related description for this part of Warner's career. Really, why wouldn't he?

Warning. I am going to be an asshole now: Isn't it weird how these older quarterbacks are doing so well later in their career now? We have Favre and Warner playing well into their 40's and upper 30's. If they were baseball players, what would we all think the reasoning for this could be? (Steroids) Why don't we think that about these players? (We are still naive) Think about it. Warner had a ton of injuries, disappeared and then as he was getting older, his numbers actually seemed to trend back towards how good they were when he was younger. If this were a baseball player, we would all believe this guy was on PEDs.

Brett Favre is the same way. He is 40 years and old just went 18 games with little dropoff in production. We attribute it to their "toughness" just like we attributed McGwire and Sosa's home run hitting to their "weight room work ethic." I am not accusing Favre or Warner of not being clean, I just find it interesting we don't really suspect them of anything. It could be due to the drug policy the NFL has for the reason no one suspects them, but for baseball players we are so vigilant, yet in football where are the players are huge, we don't suspect a thing. If anything football players have shown themselves to be more willing to sacrifice their bodies to play their sport than any other athlete in any sport (except hockey). Is it impossible to think a player may take something to prolong his career and get another guaranteed contract?

"What was perfect for me was that Mike [Martz] drew the game up exactly the way I always wanted to play football -- with a lot of quick decisions to be made. He wanted to play decisively, not be afraid to make decisions and live with them. And I had the great toys at my disposal in that offense. I played exactly the way the offense was drawn up by Mike. It was a perfect marriage.''

I don't want to demean Warner's Hall of Fame chances but he only played quarterback really well when he had Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Marshall Faulk, Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald on his team. Basically, if you surrounded Warner with Hall of Fame talent he could elevate his game another level. I don't know if this makes him a Hall of Fame quarterback or not in my mind.

"No question I was skeptical I'd get the job,'' Warner said. "I'd heard it before -- the best man will win -- but sometime it hadn't happened. Here, I knew without a doubt I was the best man for the job. That's not a cut on Matt [Leinart]. And it wasn't a cut on Eli [Manning] when I was with the Giants. But I felt like there were times in my career where it didn't matter what I did, I wasn't going to get the job.

(playing violins for Warner in a sorrowful manner)

Yeah Kurt, at the time and even in retrospect, the Giants were right to start the #1 pick of the NFL Draft over you in New York with the Giants. Playing Manning as much as possible was the right thing to do for the Giants.

He was a meteor across the NFL sky. Twice.

"A meteor across the NFL sky?" I don't even know what to say to this analogy Peter just submitted. Ok I do. It's sort of stupid.

Ten years and one week ago, Warner made the throw he'll always remember. Taking you inside the three plays that will never leave him:

2. Jan. 30, 2000, Super Bowl. Rams 23, Titans 16. Rams up 16-0. Titans score 16 unanswered points. Two minutes left. Warner rears back and fires a bomb, perfectly placed into Isaac Bruce's hands, up the right sideline, for a 73-yard touchdown.

Hmmm. This may be some revisionist history a little bit. It sounds like Warner threw a great pass and Bruce didn't do much. Here is how I remember it.

Kurt Warner rears back and underthrows Isaac Bruce who adjusts well to the pass, catches it, and then makes a move left to get past the Titans defender and outruns the defenders to the end zone. I think that play was more Bruce making a great play than Warner doing anything too special. There wasn't really a "bomb" and it wasn't exactly "perfectly placed" without Bruce's adjustment to the ball.

5. San Diego (13-4). Philip Rivers missed this game because of the birth of his fifth child. Makes population explosion seem worthwhile.

Congratulations Philip Rivers, you have received approval from Peter King to have another child with your wife! I do fail to see why this makes population explosion worthwhile. It's not like we need more Philip Rivers' in the world or anything, nor does it make sense why he is so important as to make population explosion seem worthwhile. I can't figure out Peter King, so I better not try.

7. Arizona (11-7). Good piece Friday by Don Banks on SI.com about Matt Leinart, making the point that Leinart isn't a lost cause. I'd forgotten he was competent as a rookie, completing 60 percent of his throws in five of his last six games.

He's got weapons all around him. I think Matt Leinart is going to be fine in Arizona. It doesn't mean they may not draft a quarterback or sign a free agent quarterback, but I think Leinart will do a good job. He's been there for 4 years, he better know what he is doing by now.

8. Green Bay (11-6). I'll tell you the player the guys in the NFC practice sessions were most impressed with last week -- Aaron Rodgers.

Get the hell off my bandwagon Peter! You don't get near my Aaron Rodgers bandwagon with your coffee stained teeth and undying love for white quarterbacks with facial hair.

10. Philadelphia (11-6). Donovan McNabb, throwing into three of the wrong-colored jerseys on his first Pro Bowl series, looking very much like he looked in the last eight quarters of the year against Dallas.

I think McNabb should start for the Eagles next year, but I can't help but think about a quarterback for my favorite team who just started throwing to the wrong team and his team still hung with him causing the collapse of an entire half season. Possibly I am scarred and McNabb won't have this happen to him and I don't think it will, but I can't help but think this.

13. Carolina (8-8). I see where Julius Peppers' agent says he hasn't heard from the Panthers about a long-term deal. Where would talks for such a deal start -- $20-million a year? His contract is so stratospheric it's going to be impossible for anyone to pay him what he thinks he's worth after Peppers earned more than $18 million this year.

Three fun facts about Julius Peppers:

1. He played well this year but he was the reason the Panthers had special teams and defensive line problems early in the year. Because of his franchise tag, they couldn't sign their experienced special teams guys or a veteran defensive tackle.

2. He turned down a contract making him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL two years ago. What else does he want? I don't think neither he nor his agent knows.

3. He doesn't try hard every game. I have been killed by Panthers fans for suggesting this, but if you watch him, it's true. Some games he shows up, other games he doesn't, and he has been doing this for over 10 years now. He's from North Carolina, he went to UNC-CH, and he plays for the Panthers, which is the only reason he hasn't gotten more heat for this.

Kurt Warner, Colin Powell, Steve Forbes, Rudy Giuliani and Laura Bush will be featured at an all-day motivational speaking event, "GET MOTIVATED'', at the U.S Airways Center Thursday in Phoenix. "Send your entire office for only $159!'' the ad blares.

What if you are too lazy to sign up? Is there someone that can do that for potential attendees?

3. I think this is the luck of the Raiders: one injury Sunday night, and it was an undisclosed knee injury to Nnamdi Asomugha.

The Raiders don't have bad luck at all. They make bad personnel decisions so they create their own bad luck. If anything, it's karma or some other force of nature that has caused the one guy they got right coming out of the draft to get injured...they are being punished for not trading him to a better team and salvaging his career. If the Raiders stink this upcoming year, it won't be because of injuries.

4. I think this is the best unkept secret in the NFL: Roger Goodell told Rich Eisen of NFL Network last night that the uncapped year in 2010 is "virtually certain.'' With the deadline for a new agreement being March 5 (and I can tell you a new deal will be signed closer to March 5, 2012 than March 5, 2010),

I love the NFL and I will always watch the NFL. I think the NFL is also the most popular sport in the United States. But...if there is a lockout or any type of strike between the players and the owners, I don't think this will be good for the NFL. The last thing many people in the United States care about is two groups of millionaires squabbling over money, especially in a time when unemployment is in double digits. Even when unemployment has gone down and the United States is in better financial shape, I still think there won't be much of a stomach from fans for millionaires arguing with each other. People will think they and the rest of the country had to sacrifice for a period of time, so the problems of millionaires doesn't bother them. It's just a perception problem. The NFL may immediately regain it's popularity, but I still don't think a lockout is a good thing long-term for the sport.

5. I think I understand, and appreciate, the strident feelings on each side of the Tim Tebow argument. And I saw a good chunk of the Senior Bowl Saturday, and saw the same things you did. Tebow is noticeably slow in his mechanics and footwork. In his plodding performance, Tebow showed he'll need a redshirt year in the NFL to get his game up to speed with the rest of the league. "I think he needs to be stripped down completely, like a 12-year-old kid in Pop Warner, and rebuilt as a quarterback,'' said ESPN's Todd McShay, probably the harshest critic of Tebow.

Ladies and gentlemen, he may be a 1st round pick, yet he has all these questions about him. I may have more about this tomorrow, but I am firmly in Todd McShay's camp.

I was reading a good profile of Floyd Little by Mark Kiszla in the Denver Post last night and it hit home again how important it is to the men involved.

Little told Kiszla: "Do you know the average life expectancy of an NFL player? It's 58. And you're talking to a 67-year-old man. So I'm already on borrowed time. I don't have that many years left on this earth. I don't want to go in the Hall posthumously. No sir. That's not for me. I need to be alive to enjoy the celebration with family and friends. Forget posthumously. If I'm not here to enjoy it, give the honor to somebody who's still breathing."

Ah yes. Floyd Little is using the old, "I am going to die soon, so give a dying old man a thrill and vote him in the Hall of Fame while he is still alive" guilt trip. Usually this type guilt trip is followed by a minor coughing fit into a tissue if the guilt-er is doing it correctly.

8. I think these are a few thoughts about the Pro Bowl, which I will heap disdain on from now 'til the end of time:

The all-star games in major sports aren't generally that interesting. I know most people hate how the MLB All-Star game is tied to who gets homefield advantage in the World Series. I am not a huge fan, but I don't know of another way, outside of team record to decide this. Even though most people hate how baseball ties the World Series homefield advantage to the winner of the All-Star Game, it at least makes the game interesting to watch. Many other all-star games are boring to watch because the players either aren't trying or it is obvious no one really wants to be there. There is no defense in either the Pro Bowl or NBA All-Star Game. At least the MLB All-Star gives the viewer something that is still viewable as baseball to watch.

World Series homefield advantage aside, the MLB All-Star Game is still competitive and at least the players look like they are trying. That's why the MLB All-Star Game is the only all-star game I would consider watching for an extended period of time on television. I know I may be in the minority on that.

d. I am honored, touched, pleased and humbled by those of you who came up to me at the stadium last night and chatted with me about Monday Morning Quarterback and SI stories you recall fondly. Thanks. It means a lot to me.

Peter certainly sounds nice, but next time we see Peter King in public he will have a group of armed guards around him to prevent his fans from talking to him. This is a man who didn't have time to talk about the AFC Championship Game in his MMQB, so he doesn't have time to talk to everyone who reads his MMQB. That's like a thousand people or something.

Memo to Dolphins PR-meister Harvey Greene: That press box runs like clockwork, and you and the NFL had it all together Sunday night as you always do. But that coffee needs to be shot at sunrise. It tastes like three-year-old coffee thrice-Microwaved, the kind of coffee prisoners at Leavenworth would spit out, then follow with a complaint to their lawyer about cruel and unusual punishment.

Is there anything less endearing than someone who complains about free coffee? If you don't like the coffee, go buy a beer or go find better coffee. It's not like it is incredibly expensive. The coffee at my work tastes like ass but every morning I have a steaming mug of it, because it's free and fairly rude to bitch and moan about free coffee. Most individuals just accept free coffee, unless you have an overly healthy dose of self-importance about you and think the world is here to please you, so the free coffee must be top of the line free coffee...you know, like Peter seems to think.

One more week until the Super Bowl and then that will be all the live football-related observations we can get from Peter for this year. Let's not act too sad about this, he will still have his off-season observations that are equally as worthy of being written about.

Monday, January 11, 2010

11 comments MMQB Review: The Game of the Year For This Week Edition

This weekend had a pretty good opening round of NFL Playoff Games, though there is definitely room for improvement next weekend since 3 of the games were over by the third quarter. I am really excited for next weekend's games to see how they go since 3 of the 4 teams that had a bye week this past week were for one reason or another not playing all that well when the season ended. This weekend we learned that the Bengals really weren't holding that much back last week, the Eagles probably should try to run the ball at least once or twice a game just to change things up, the Patriots actually can look human at home in the playoffs for once and that Kurt Warner really shouldn't retire after this season.

One other thing I personally learned is how Larry Fitzgerald dominates in the playoffs. It's so easy I never thought of it. He just commits offensive pass interference and hopes the officials don't call it. I'm being kind of tongue in cheek but I do find it interesting the two touchdown receptions Fitzgerald had on Sunday ended with Charles Woodson on the ground yards away from Fitzgerald as he scored a touchdown. The first one was borderline, where he and Woodson got "tangled up" even though Fitzgerald didn't seem to have a problem being tangled, so I can accept that one. The second one was blatant. Woodson dared to cover Fitzgerald so he just extended his arms, pushed Woodson, ran him the hell over and then proceeded to make a great one-handed touchdown catch. It was brutally blatant. It certainly looked like he just ran over Woodson on his way to the touchdown and the officials completely missed it. It probably wouldn't have made a difference in the game (since the Cardinals could score any time they wanted), but I feel like it had to be acknowledged.

Peter King also has some thoughts on the playoff games this weekend.

The game of the year came when football fans needed it, because face it: There's more suspense in a three-game Marlins-Nationals series than there was in the first three games of wild-card weekend.

The other NFL Playoff games were about as exciting as three baseball games between teams that refuse to spend $100 million dollars on players and play in the inferior National League. That's how boring they were. They should just contract these two baseball teams and give the players to the Red Sox and Yankees so there can be real baseball played. In fact, just contract every MLB team and let the Red Sox and the Yankees play every day of every week for 162 games.

I feel for Packers fans this morning. That's an excruciating loss. The worst. It'll take days, weeks, to get over it, I'm sure. But that's sports. Sometimes you get your heart broken, and the only way to not get your heart broken is to not fall in love.

Peter learned this lesson the hard way with Brett Favre. Look for their love story to be played out in a movie coming to theaters near you called "(500) Training Camp Days of Summer."

And there is much to love about this Green Bay team. The quarterback's scary good, even if he did hold on to the ball too long on the last play of the season.

Dammit Aaron Rodgers, throw an interception in overtime when you are being pressured rather than risk getting sacked and having to punt! What were you thinking when you were worrying about ball security in overtime in the playoffs? Throw the ball somewhere to an area of the field. That's what Brett Favre would do (and did against the Giants in 2008). Be like Brett, just throw the ball up for grabs. That's the best way to quarterback in overtime in a playoff game.

These Packers are going to be good for a long time.

Ok, simmer down Peter. Let's not go overboard quite yet. This was one playoff game where the defense gave up 52 points. I don't have them on my list of Super Bowl contenders for next year until they improve the defense.

I don't like to judge active players for the Hall, and I won't.

Cue Peter not judging Kurt Warner in the Hall of Fame in 3,2,1...

But Kurt Warner is a great football player, and a great pressure football player. He played the best pressure game of a career knocking on Canton's door (I mean the best 60-minute game, not the best Super Bowl quarter)...Warner's 9-3 in the playoffs, with one Super Bowl and one Super Bowl MVP. In the regular season, he compares favorably to Hall of Famer Troy Aikman, with just 598 fewer yards, a better touchdown-to-interception ratio (208-128 to Aikman's 165-141) and four percentage points more accurate (.655 for Warner, .615 for Aikman); Aikman, who started 40 more games, has 27 more victories than Warner.

When Peter says he isn't going to do something, immediately look for him to do exactly what he wasn't going to do in the next group of sentences.

Warner somehow threw a ball into the end zone, and Fitzgerald -- after getting away with offensive pass interference by plowing over Charles Woodson -- dove and made a brilliant one-handed catch.

I am glad someone else noticed this. Larry Fitzgerald must be a ghost because the announcers barely mentioned it, and just kind of glossed over the pass interference. They were more focused on the holding non-call against the Cardinals which ended up being a personal foul on Green Bay because Jenkins got held and pushed into Kurt Warner's face.

(I hate complaining about calls that are in a game I don't care about, but I like good officiating and it wasn't great officiating in that game)

When punter Steve Weatherford was kayoed from the Jets-Bengals game two minutes before kickoff due to an irregular heartbeat, Feely, who hadn't punted in a game in his nine-year NFL career, got the call.

I know an irregular heartbeat is serious, but couldn't he just have punted the ball out of bounds like Feely did? It made sense that Feely punted in the game but this still bothered me. Even though I know an irregular heartbeat is serious, he punts the ball and in a playoff game wouldn't there be a way to make sure he didn't overexert himself other than to kick the ball? I am sure Weatherford wanted to kick and the training staff didn't want to be responsible for him dying on the field. I just like to ask insensitive questions.

Cowboys 34, Eagles 14: Dallas has a lot of ways to beat you. First of all, Charles Barkley ... Chuck, Chuck, Chuck. Are you serious? On the NBC air, he said, "Donovan McNabb is the most underrated player in Eagles history.'' Wow. Some statement. We're going to part ways on this one, big fella.

Who does Peter King thinks is the most underrated player in Eagles history? Brett Favre.

Seriously, I bet Peter thinks a guy like Reggie White is the most underrated player in Eagles history. I am sure his selection would be equally as asinine as Charles Barkley's selection.

Ravens33, Patriots 14: It wasn't that close. New England was woefully outmatched on both sides of the ball for the first time in a playoff game in the Belichick Era. I think there's trouble in Red Sox City, but the team is certainly salvageable.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the Patriots are actually located in Boston, which is actually Red Sox City. I get his point, but I'm just saying...

A traffic jam at the Hall of Fame. The Hall cut the list from 25 semi-finalists to 15 by eliminating, among others, Paul Tagliabue (it was hopeless for him this year with the labor strife some voters trace back to him), Steve Tasker (I am weeping), Cliff Branch (if Lynn Swann is in, so should he)

Fine then, let's take Lynn Swann out of the Hall of Fame. I have talked about this before, but Swann never had great statistics and though he was important to the Steelers of the 70's, I don't think this should have been enough to get him in the Hall of Fame, especially with another Hall of Fame receiver on the other side of the field in John Stallworth. Swann is the floor for Hall of Fame receivers in my mind.

1. Regarding the non-facemask call on the last play of Arizona-Green Bay: I've watched the TiVoed combination of replays six times now. Arizona's Michael Adams blitzes, dislodges the ball from Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers, rakes his hands over the facemask of Rodgers, then appears to grab the facemask, and the ball is inadvertently kicked by Rodgers...Adams keeps his hands on the mask as he plows into Rodgers and brings him to the ground. Adams didn't tackle him by the mask, but his hand did stay secured on the mask as Rodgers fell to the ground.

This would have been a tough call to make against the Cardinals, I don't know if the official should make the call honestly. Of course Peter has to go and defend the official on the play, which makes me question the call more...

The referee, Scott Green, is the official on the crew with the responsibility of watching plays involving the quarterback. Once the ball has been dislodged, Green has to watch the ball, not the contact on the quarterback. He has to see if the ball hits the ground and judge if it's a forward pass or a fumble, then he has to follow the live ball until the end of the play. So Green could not -- at least, he should not -- have seen the contact on the mask of Rodgers.

Under this line of thinking any time a quarterback throws the ball, wouldn't the official also miss any illegal contact or unnecessary roughness calls that took place on the quarterback? This may be a better example: Say at the snap Rodgers runs right with the ball and pitches it to Brandon Jackson, wouldn't the official follow the ball and never see potential illegal contact called on the defender against the quarterback after he had pitched the ball? The official is trying to determine if the pitch is a lateral or not, right, so he can't watch what happens to Rodgers in this situation? But, I have seen illegal contact or a personal foul called in situations like this in college football, so I have a hard time believing an NFL official couldn't follow the ball and notice Adams had a hold of Rodgers' facemask at the same time.

Really, it's not a big deal, but I have a hard time buying an excuse that IF that should have been a penalty, it wasn't called because the official can't pay attention to the ball and Rodgers. Hell, shouldn't another official have seen it then?

The deep hole Pete Carroll is stepping into.

What would make Pete Carroll want to go to the NFL again? (Besides money.) He has NFL players at USC and he is the king there. Is he bailing after one tough year? What would make an NFL team hire Pete Carroll again? It's not like he was incredibly successful the first 2 times he coached in the NFL. I thought it was ironic the Seahawks interviewed Leslie Frazier to satisfy the Rooney Rule, when I think they should have interviewed him with serious intentions to give him a chance to win the job. This seems like a lose-lose situation for Carroll and the Seahawks to me. The Seahawks get a coach who hasn't been successful as a head coach previously and Pete Carroll gives up a great college football job.

Remember when Charlie Weis last month said Carroll, the married father of three, was "living with a grad student in Malibu?'' Carroll, furious, said it was "untrue, irresponsible ... and incredible that he'd be talking about me like that.''

Kansas City (Weis' new employer) at Seattle, date TBA, next fall, Qwest Field.

I want to go on record as saying I would be surprised if Pete Carroll WASN'T living with a grad student in Malibu. I am not saying he looks like a bad guy, but he looks and acts like the kind of guy who would be living with a grad student in Malibu. Maybe I think this because Pete Carroll also looks like the kind of head coach whose players get illegal benefits and there are never NCAA ramifications through sanctions.

"I immediate thought of Ted Williams going into the last day of the '41 season batting .399995, or whatever it was,'' Brees said, "and I thought, 'If I don't play, I'm letting Teddy down.' ''

First off, Ted Williams is dead so Brees wouldn't be letting him down. Secondly, Ted Williams never had a personal relationship with Brees so because they didn't know each other, it is hard for Williams to be let down when he never knew or cared about Brees. I get what Brees is saying, but this is like me saying I don't want to let Willis Reed down by not playing a pick-up game of basketball because my ankle hurts.

5. New Orleans (13-3). The more I thought about it the past few days, the more faith I had in the Saints offense to play well this weekend after slumping late. They just have to use Kyle Eckel or one of the tight ends more than Sean Payton probably wants -- but that's the cost of keeping Brees clean.

How many punts do you think we will see in the Cardinals-Saints game this weekend? Maybe 2 or 3?

Special Teams Player of the Week

Rico Murray, S, Cincinnati.

I celebrated Jay Feely higher in the column, so I'm reserving this for a guy who made one of the heads-up plays of the weekend -- and I bet you don't even remember it.

I love it when Peter names a player in his "Player of the Week" section and then says we may not even remember what that player did. I find it hard for a player to be a "Player of the Week" and no one can remember why he deserves it.

On the first Feely punt of the game, the ball hits at the Bengals 32, and takes a high bounce, and out of nowhere streaks in Murray, who is not the return man on the play. He grabs the ball, much to the surprise of players on both punting units, and turns upfield and sprints 23 yards to the Jets 45. Seven plays later, Cincinnati strikes first and takes a 7-0 lead.

So he made a crucial play (possibly also a pretty stupid play since he wasn't the return man) that had absolutely no effect on the game. Now it makes sense why Peter gave him this fake award.

It helps to have Wes Welker sitting up in the owner's box, and to have Randy Moss nursing some sort of injury and playing soft all day. But the Ravens embarrassed the Patriots, and the defensive scheme was a big part of that.

Dammit Peter! Randy Moss wasn't playing soft! He was playing as hard as he ever plays. It's not like he only plays when he wants to play...even though he said he did exactly that a few years ago. See what Belichick defending Moss earlier this year after the game against Carolina did? It boosted Moss up for a couple weeks, but then Moss played soft again yesterday. I know Belichick stands up for his guy and I respect that, but I think the more coaches make excuses for some of Moss's lack of effort, the more he gives a lack of effort in some games.

This is what happens when you give a city hope:

In March 2006, the Saints had 44,000 tickets available.

Today, the Saints have a season-ticket waiting list of 50,000.

I know I may get killed for saying this, but isn't this also the very epitome of fair weather fans? I know they had Hurricane Katrina dramatically affect the entire state prior to 2006, I get that, but many of the people who can afford season tickets to Saints games didn't lose their home and possessions in Hurricane Katrina. There is a different type individual that seemed to lose everything and can afford to buy season tickets to the Saints games. For me, I am glad the fan base is so happy, but this is also the epitome of pretty fair weather fans.

I mean, come on, that's a swing of 94,000 tickets in 4 years.

Enjoyable/Aggravating Travel Notes of the Week


One other note, from a quiet Amtrak regional train home from New York Sunday. Five people in my car. I sit in the middle of the car and continue typing out a story for the magazine on Drew Brees. A smartly dressed woman in the back of the car, eight rows behind me, is on the phone. She is Loudwoman. "CAN YOU BELIEVE IT? ... YEP, 35 TOMORROW! THE BIG 3-5! ... NO, NOTHING. NOTHING. WHAT SHOULD I DO, GO TO A STRIP CLUB? ... YEAH, LIKE RICHIE WOULD DO THAT ...'' And on and on it went. After a couple of minutes, I packed everything up and went to the front row of the car. It was better, but still not silent, for the next 10 minutes.

Then it got quiet for a while. Then clip ... clip ... clip Loudwoman, clipping her nails on Amtrak. Fingers, not toes.

Oh how annoying. How dare anyone riding on public transportation do anything but sit still quietly! Remember Peter is typing a story on his computer, so I bet some person in the same car was thinking, "Jesus, will you quit pounding the keys on that keyboard so hard," and wanted Peter to quit pecking away on the computer so he could enjoy HIS commute in peace. Of course Peter doesn't think he may be annoying others by typing because he is so focused on complaining about the person annoying him.

e. A smart man in Buffalo told me: "They love Leslie Frazier.'' Bills interviewed him for five hours Thursday, and as I said on NBC Saturday night, he's the leader in the clubhouse for that job, but so many golfers are still out on the course -- like Jets offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer.

Why would any team want to hire a smart, young offensive/defensive coordinator who have been successful in the NFL at their respective jobs like Frazier and Schottenheimer when they can hire coaches like Mike Shanahan and Pete Carroll who have been fired a total of 4 times between them?

i. Jermichael Finley's really good.

Here Peter goes with the obvious statements, though I do have to admit this isn't as obvious as the Andre Johnson statement last year...and at least Finley hasn't made a Pro Bowl yet and Peter is just now realizing, and mentioning, he is a good tight end.

4. I think I'm pretty skeptical that this shotgun wedding between Pete Carroll and this John Doe GM can work long-term.

I'm pretty skeptical Pete Carroll is an above average NFL head coach or even the best head coaching candidate available for the Seahawks to hire. In fact, I can think of 5 other coaches that would be better than Carroll as a head coach in the NFL just from the college football ranks. Add in the coordinators in the NFL who I think are better candidates compared to Carroll and I really question this hire by Seattle.

We saw some bad quarterback play over the weekend out of a couple of other vets -- Carson Palmer and Tom Brady -- but the difference is that Palmer has no one behind him and Brady's a three-time Super Bowl winner coming off an injury and was beat up the whole year. The Eagles have a strong prospect behind McNabb, Kevin Kolb, and I can't think of any physical excuses for McNabb.

He's slightly overweight? I am kidding Eagles fans.

Possibly what is wrong with McNabb is that his offensive line isn't that great, the Cowboys defense is just better, and his head coach absolutely refuses to help him by trying to run the ball on a consistent basis?

If the Eagles believe Kolb is a player, and I'm told they certainly do, Reid owes it to the franchise to think long and hard about allowing Kolb to compete for the job or take the job next year in his fourth season, at age 26. It's not like the Eagles need draft fortification, but McNabb could bring, let's say, something in the range of two second-round picks from Brad Childress if Brett Favre retires.

I think Kolb should get a chance for the job, simply because I don't think the fall-off between he and McNabb is that great, Kolb is younger and McNabb still has some trade value. I think it is HILARIOUS that Peter thinks Brad Childress would trade for another aging quarterback if Favre retires after this year (do we ever really know if Favre is actually retired or not?). If Peter's thought was true, isn't it funny how Childress just absolutely refuses to sign a quarterback under the age of 30?

b. The Sanchize. The Jets didn't win in spite of him, and they didn't have to be cautious with him.

Like I said, he just has to manage the game and he has a few guys who can help him do that, along with a great running game. The problem lies when he tries or is forced to do too much.

i. Green Bay's passing game. Aaron Rodgers, Jermichael Finley, Greg Jennings. Peyton Manning, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne. Not sure which combo platter I'd rather have right now.

We all know I like Aaron Rodgers, but until further notice is given, I would rather have Manning, Clark, and Wayne. It's getting closer but I still say the Colts combo platter is best.

c. Nice catch, Braylon Edwards. Toughest call of the Jets offseason will be determining how much this restricted free agent's worth. He's not in Larry Fitzgerald's league, but he'll want to be paid in it.

If anyone, or even Braylon Edwards, thinks he is in the same class as Larry Fitzgerald they need to be drug tested immediately. Braylon Edwards should be re-signed but if he is asking for money even a notch below Larry Fitzgerald, the Jets shouldn't re-sign him.

e. Coffeenerdness: Shared a coffee with Drew Brees at P.J.'s Coffee House in the University Section of Uptown New Orleans the other day. Actually, he is lactose intolerant and had a soy latte. I had a triple latte. Interesting that there's a Starbucks across the street and this place holds its own. It does that because the espresso is excellent -- rich, no bitterness. Highly recommended if you're around Tulane or Loyola, or visiting the Mannings down there.

Seriously Peter? If I am "visiting the Mannings down there?" Does Peter really think the people who read his MMQB are just going to New Orleans to visit the Manning family or something because they are friends with the family? This is an absolutely stupid statement. What normal person would go visit the Mannings just randomly and expect them to open their door to talk to you?

g. Congrats to Jets director of media relations David Tratner and wife, Jessica, who had son Mark Harrison Tratner late in the second quarter of the Jets' Saturday win. The game was in the delivery room until the doctor entered for the final act, shall we say. But Mark got to see the second half. Precocious little fellow came out yelling, "J-E-T-S! Jets Jets Jets!''

Why do I feel like that child is in for a lifetime of disappointment? Or at least a lifetime of constantly being nervous because he always expects the worse to happen?

I posted the standings after the first week of the BotB NFL Playoff Challenge. I lost to Bill Simmons during the regular season by one game, that's it (which makes me unhappy), so I am still counting the playoffs as us competing since we are both still making picks. With this big 0-4 weekend, it looks like he has lost his touch from earlier this year and I am two games ahead of him now.

Thursday, January 22, 2009

10 comments Mariotti, Paige, and Kurt Warner/Peyton Manning Insanity

Due to the fact it is Thursday and Bill Simmons has not posted for this week yet, I am going to go after some low hanging fruit, Jay Mariotti and a Woody Paige mailbag, both of which have little tidbits of bad information in them. I think possibly, maybe, Woody Paige is not stupid but rather is surrounded by people who ask him idiotic questions and that lowers his IQ.

Hey, Woody. I know CU is not looking for a new football coach, but wouldn't they be served well to hire Mike Shanahan? He would get the Buffs back to powerhouse status and also would be able to keep and live in his new Cherry Hills mansion. -- Dennis Smythe, Littleton

So the Buffs are not looking for a new football coach, partially because they hired Dan Hawkins who has the team steadily improving (even though the record does not show it), but Dennis wants the Buffs to hire a head coach who has been in the NFL since 1984 and has never been a head coach on the college football level? I just wanted to make sure I understood the question.

Dan Hawkins is tied up for four or five years, and CU can't afford, with its budget, to pay him off, and he is a good coach, and the program is on the way up, and if Shanahan wouldn't take the Florida job, he won't take the CU job, and he said at the good-bye press conference he is a pro coach, and he told me even before the season he never sees himself going back to college football (he was an assistant for years).

Dennis doesn't think we should let things like, "Shanahan doesn't want to coach there," or "Colorado can't afford to pay two expensive coaches" stop us from thinking this is a good idea. I don't like to take random people who ask questions out to the woodshed but the two type questions that irritate me a lot are those questions that propose coaches going to a team when that team already has a good coach and when readers suggest ways to "fix" a team using fantasy football/Madden methods ("Just sign x player, trade for x player and then you are done!").

As we know, the overtime in the NFL is problematic. What do you think of doing away with the coin toss and giving the team with the most first downs first possession? That way it's at least earned. -- Sean, Boise, Idaho

The team with the most first downs should get first possession? No way, that's not arbitrary enough for me. Each team's offensive and defensive lines should be weighed at the beginning of the game and at the end of the game, then the team that loses the most weight should not only get the ball first in the overtime but if a team loses 45 pounds, then they get to start at their own 45 yard line, if they lose 60 pounds, they get to start at the opponents 40 yard line. If they lose 103 pounds, screw it, that team wins the game on a touchdown, there is no overtime.

I can think of 100 other snarky ideas but the basic premise is that Sean from Idaho's idea is not good.

It's simple, Sean. At the end of regulation, visiting team gets the ball first. If it scores, home teams gets the ball, both following kickoffs. If visiting team is stopped, it punts, and there you go. Both teams should have an opportunity. Statistically, the teams that gets the ball first win more often than the other team.

The reason Woody finds this simple is that there is absolutely no endgame for his suggestion. This could go on for three or four possessions at a time with teams potentially just matching scores with each other. Overall, not the worst idea, and I believe this is actually better than the current system, but I think we can improve on this.

(Bring Bertrand Berry Back) and a linebacker (I mentioned Channing Crowder from Miami, who is relatively cheap), draft the linebacker from USC, get a big-time safety (I mentioned Mike Brown of Chicago) and draft a safety, another defensive lineman (get rid of those worthless picks from a couple of years ago) and replace Nate Webster with someone of equal financial outlay.

Simple as that! Here are the problems: Bertrand Berry will be 34 at the beginning of the next football season which is old in football years, I am not sure how Woody knows that Channing Crowder is relatively cheap because he is not a free agent yet, Rey Maualuga is probably not going to be there when Denver picks (if you believe the reports from the Senior Bowl), Mike Brown is a good safety and I have a special affinity for him because of where he went to school but he is also 30 years old and has played in 2, 12, 6, 1, and 15 games since 2004 so you may need a backup plan, and good luck getting a defensive lineman because every team in the league wants one.

Other than that, Woody has a great plan.

The Broncos need seven new starters on defense. Haynesworth would be just one and costs what seven would cost. I said Julius Peppers in last week's mailbag, and a guy from Carolina wrote me that I was an idiot. OK. I'm an idiot. I still like Peppers.

I guarantee you Julius Peppers is either going to cost you at least a 1st round pick if he is franchised then traded or in excess of $70 million dollars if you sign him as a free agent, maybe more depending on the length of the contract. You could easily get Albert Haynesworth for that amount of money. You are an idiot and I am from Carolina, so count two of us who think that.

If anyone is qualified to talk about who should make the Hall of Fame, it is definitely not Jay Mariotti. He, of course, has a HoF vote.

There are days, many days, when Amy Winehouse, Nick Nolte and a gaggle of Trappist monks would vote with more responsibly than sports media people.

See, Jay no longer writes for a newspaper so he doesn't think he is a journalist anymore, which means he also believes he can take cheap shots at "the sports media." He will tell you more about this on ESPN later tonight.

I did notice in the comments this...

10. mjack08 said...
http://firejaymariotti.blogspot.com/

That is awesome. I wish I got shout outs in the comments section of a column. I don't really wish this, because knowing my luck the worst column I have ever posted would be linked. Similar to when Cliff Corcoran (from Bronx Banter Blog and he contributes to CNNSI) somehow found his way to this site and read my mocking of National League Championship Game 4 preview he did that was admittedly not my best work. I was incredibly nitpicky in it and then took me to task a bit in the comments. The worst part is he schooled me on who picks out the headline and all other journalism intrigue I did not know, which makes me feel like an ass, then followed it up with thanking me for reading. Basically that means, "you suck, I don't." If this was "Yo Mama" I would have been out of the game at that point.

Why does a baseball beat writer in Chicago embarrass his profession by blessing the decidedly unspectacular A.J. Pierzynski -- his go-to source and BFF -- with a lonely 10th-place MVP vote?

Why does an ESPN and mainstream media family member insist on working out old grudges no matter where he goes?

We should be reporting the news. We should be commenting on the news. We shouldn't be screwing up the news,

When Cincinnati pitcher Edinson Volquez finishes fourth in National League Rookie of the Year balloting -- a nice honor if he actually was a rookie, as three writers mistakenly assumed -- you know the process is wacked.

Way to screw up the news asshole. That was actually MLB's fault.

Volquez's presence on that list is definitely unique: No longer a rookie, the pitcher was mistakenly placed on the ballot and received three votes for second, thus there was an obligation to include him in the final results.

It's not like the writers just randomly decided to put him on the ballot, MLB made a mistake and the writers saw his name and voted for him. Should they have known better? Maybe, but reporting it as the writer's fault is screwing up the news, which Mariotti does well, since he mistakes his opinion for news quite frequently.

To see Big Mac stonewalled suggests the distrust and disgust is permanent, that he'll never reach the Hall.

Ty Cobb once beat an African American man up in an elevator, was a violent racist, and beat up a handicapped man in the stands. Gaylord Perry did everything but admit he cheated and threw a spitball, as did other pitchers who are currently in the Hall of Fame. There were rumors Whitey Ford scuffed the ball with his wedding ring and that Don Drysdale did something similar. Phil Niekro's brother Joe, got caught cheating in a game and there were always rumors Phil made his knuckleball dance with a little extra special help from Joe's methods. Don Sutton was also accused of scuffing the baseball and Lew Burdette also allegedly threw a spitball. I can go on and on, if you would like, concerning incidents of cheating in major league baseball that has not kept players out of the Hall of Fame.

I am not saying McGwire should be in the HoF, but I am saying to keep him out when he has never been proven guilty of something is a double standard if we are going to elect these other players to the HoF.

Clemens is the most dominant pitcher of his time, Bonds the most prolific slugger of his time -- a sense is developing that they, too, could be rejected under the same rationale: Liars and cheats aren't allowed in Cooperstown.

I find it ironic that many of the same people who use comparisons between players of today and those already in the Hall of Fame to prove a player should make it if the past player made it, a kind of compounding a past mistake, are the same ones who think cheaters and liars (many of whom are in the HoF) should not make it. When it comes to players like McGwire and Bonds the same argument about past players cheating and lying is not used, but now these people want to draw a line in the sand and say, "this is where it stops." I realize Shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose are not in the HoF, but both were banned, so that is a different story, I am talking about rumors that may/may not be true.

This doesn't even count the players we don't know cheated because they kept it quiet. Maybe Ricky Henderson cheated, we just never knew about it. Basically, I think if you are going to compare Omar Vizquel to Ozzie Smith and let him in, I think you have to compare Roger Clemens to Gaylord Perry and let him in.

Not that I want Roger Clemens in the Hall of Fame but I get kind of tired of everyone playing the moral majority and forgetting the other players that have been allowed in the Hall of Fame who were never proven to cheat but did not have the 24/7 media around to help prove it.

I hate talking about the Hall of Fame.

Didn't even notice his name, in fact. I wrote too many tributes about him, too many gooey paragraphs in 1998, to ever forgive him. He made me -- and a lot of baseball fans -- look very dumb and gullible back then.

This is payback.

Shockingly Jay is making part of his vote against Mark McGwire personal. We would not expect that at all would we? I bet it is not so much the cheating but the fact that he made Jay look like the ass he writes like which causes him to not get a Mariotti HoF vote.

(Of course as I proofread this, I find this on ESPN.)

I think Kurt Warner is a better postseason QB than Peyton Manning but the writer of this column seems to disagree, thinking Warner is better than Manning overall, and uses postseason statistics to prove it. I respectfully disagree.

Some of you may notice I don't use statistics on this site that much, and I don't have a disdain for them, but as someone who uses numbers all day I know you can use numbers to prove absolutely anything you want. I also know that sometimes numbers can be misleading. Most numbers that try and prove a point are cherry picked anyway, but I believe numbers when they are well thought out and persuade me on an argument's merits. I don't think this one does that simply because each QB has had a different consistency level since 1998.

From Cliff Corcoran I have learned CNNSI writes the heading to columns many times, so the writer is not always responsible for that. This one says, "Why Kurt Warner is a Better QB than Peyton Manning," so I have to go from there and assume this is also the premise of the article, which it is.

Warner torched this stingy unit, completing 21 of 28 passes (75 percent) for 279 yards, 9.96 yards per attempt, four touchdowns, no interceptions and a 145.7 passer rating.

It was a nearly perfect statistical game. In fact, over the course of the game, Warner jumped past Joe Montana and into second place on the all-time postseason passer rating list:

Kurt Warner is one of the best postseason quarterbacks of all time, I will agree with that.

That's not to say Warner is a better quarterback than Montana. He's not.

I agree.

It also tells us that Warner is better than Manning.

I disagree.

Let's get the numbers that were used:

• Manning is second in NFL history with a 94.7 career passer rating.

• Warner is third in NFL history with a 93.8 career passer rating.

These two quarterbacks are very close over a long period of time. The problem is that Warner has suffered from inconsistency over that time span and Peyton Manning has consistently put up great numbers, which makes me believe he is a better QB. If Warner had injuries that caused the consistency, I could give him credit for that, but his consistency is because of poor performance. This is not a Sandy Koufax situation.

Second, when it comes to all-important postseason play, there is no comparison:

Warner is better than Manning any which way you want to slice it or dice it.

Warner in the postseason (10 games):230 of 360 (63.9 percent), 2,991 yards, 8.31 YPA, 299 yards per game, 23 TD, 12 INT, 97.3 passer rating.

Manning in the postseason (15 games):348 of 565 (61.6 percent), 4,207 yards, 7.4 YPA, 280 yards per game, 22 TD, 17 INT, 84.9 passer rating.

You'll notice Warner is better than Manning in almost every single efficiency stat and has actually thrown more postseason TD passes than Manning (23 to 22) -- despite playing in five fewer games.

I don't think you will get that many arguments Kurt Warner is better than Peyton Manning in the postseason, based on actually watching them each play and the numbers presented. This doesn't mean Peyton Manning is a lesser QB than Kurt Warner.

Three other things to consider:

1) Warner is much more likely to play well in the postseason.

2) Warner is far less likely to lay an egg in the postseason.

3) Most importantly, Warner's teams are much more likely to win the playoffs.

What do all three of these have in common? They are all talking about the postseason. Normally that would be fine if you the premise of the article was that Warner is a better postseason QB than Manning but it is not qualifed with just the postseason and indicates Warner is better overall, which I can not agree with.

You can't not include regular season numbers in this article if you are talking about overall. That's like me saying Jim Leyritz is a better baseball than Alex Rodriguez is, but then only base it on postseason performance. The only number used in this article from the regular season is QB rating, which Manning has a slight advantage over Warner.

Let's look at regular season numbers and see which quarterback is actually better (Manning has played more games than Warner, even though Warner is 37 and Manning is 32, which proves Manning has been better over a long period of time, so I will try to leave out numbers that are affected by games played, though it is hard to compare these two without seeing the different volume of numbers they put up):

(Warner's numbers, Manning's numbers)

Both joined the league in 1998, so the fact Warner has 75 less starts than Manning tells me what each coaching staff thought about each QB and also tells me about the long term performance of Warner to Manning.

Game started: Warner- 85, Manning- 160

TD%: Warner- 5.1%, Manning- 5.6%

INT%: Warner- 3.2%, Manning- 2.8%

Yards per attempt: Warner- 8.0, Manning- 7.7

Yards per game: Warner- 259.9, Manning- 259.3

Sack%- Warner- 6.2%, Manning- 3.3%

These numbers show that it is a pretty close race between the two QB's. I only showed these to get to my basic premise that when Kurt Warner is good, he is as good as Peyton Manning can be. The key is "when Kurt Warner is good," which so far has been 5 seasons in his NFL career, compared to Manning putting up great numbers every year but his rookie year. The total numbers completely support Manning being the superior QB and I would argue the fact Manning has displayed such consistency over such a long period of time, he is really the better QB between the two.

I don't think this is a case of perception that Kurt Warner is not as good as Peyton Manning, I think it is a case of consistency and if you asked 100 players who they would rather have as their QB, Manning would win in a landslide. I have no proof of this, of course, but you can't merely use postseason statistics to say Warner is a better QB. Just because Warner had spurts of greatness in his career, I don't think this means the overall greatness of Manning should be ignored. I believe a QB who consistently puts up great numbers is better than a QB that puts up great numbers intermittenly.

More remarkable is that Warner has done it with historically dysfunctional organizations. Before Warner took them to the big game, the Rams had reached just one Super Bowl (XIV) in their history, including their time in Los Angeles. Warner led the franchise to its only Super Bowl victory and to its first NFL title since 1951.

The Colts were not exactly a model franchise before Peyton Manning arrived. They did have the #1 pick in the draft.

The Rams have fallen off the face of the earth since he left.

The decline of Marshall Faulk had something to do with this as well. Also, the Rams have struggled lately, but they did make the postseason two years without Warner as the QB and the Giants became a better team with a rookie Eli Manning as the QB. You have to factor these things in as well.

For his part, Manning remains the Picasso of Choke Artists and the master of the one-and-done. Six times in nine visits his vaunted Colts have exited the playoffs without a single victory and he's underperformed almost each and every time.

No argument from me here.

Given Manning's and Warner's career accomplishments, we'd take Warner over Manning to lead our team six days a week and certainly on Sunday -- especially if that Sunday is in January.

You are crazy. The overall numbers support that Manning is a slightly better QB and the numbers over his career prove in a given season Peyton Manning is likely to perform better than Kurt Warner. If you want a QB who wavers from year to year over a QB that is great every single year, you take Warner with his fumbles and I will take Peyton Manning. I will win.