Sunday, April 24, 2011

3 comments Marcus Hayes Has Not Enjoyed Chatting With You About the 76ers

We may all remember Marcus Hayes' epic chat last October concerning the Phillies where he revealed the entire city of Philadelphia is racist and Jimmy Rollins will have 30 home runs in 2011. It was a great chat, I would suggest those who haven't read it go through the chat. Marcus Hayes tends to antagonize those who ask questions. Today is no different, he has decided he will do a chat with readers (i.e. idiots in his mind) who ask him questions he clearly doesn't want to answer. It is his job, so Marcus answers the questions, but he doesn't have to like it.

Comment From Amir: Hey Marcus, the need for a go to guy is looking more obvious than ever do u think the sixers shud let Evan grow into it or make a deal

I have to admit, if I read a questions where I had to read misspelled words and text-like language instead of actual words I may be a little irritated as well.

Marcus: I cannot see Evan growing into it.

Because giving a 22 year old rookie one year to become the #1 scoring option on a playoff team is PLENTY of time. Maybe Turner won't grow into it, but give him more than one year please.

Comment From Huh: So you've written off Turner already?

Marcus: I never would have used the No. 2 pick on him.

Oh yes, hindsight is 20/20. Need to know what a team should do with their 2010 draft pick? Wait, three years and then make a decision on what that team should have done. I would love to know who Marcus Hayes would have drafted instead, only knowing what he did at the time, which is Turner was the only other "franchise" guy available that didn't have question marks about him (Cousins). It may have been a bad year to have the #2 overall pick and it isn't like there were a ton of other great options that would fit the Sixers at #2.

Granted, the Sixers did not need another small forward, but there wasn't a better option at that point in the draft. The Sixers didn't want to "reach" for a player in that spot. Five guys were seen as being the Top 5 in the draft: John Wall, Evan Turner, DeMarcus Cousins, Wesley Johnson, and Derrick Favors. Wall was gone when the 76ers drafted and the only guy outside of Turner who was seen as a "franchise" player was DeMarcus Cousins. So it is fine to say the Sixers shouldn't have drafted Turner, but he was their best option at the time, and no other player (outside of Cousins) would have made sense at the #2 spot when you combine perceived talent at the #2 spot and the Sixers needs.

He can be a nice, complimentary player, but for now, and for the foreseeable future, he cannot defend and he cannot shoot.

Again, he was a rookie. Perhaps this was true, but there wasn't a ton of non-complimentary players in the draft. The Sixers were in a tough position in that the best player on the board was at a position they didn't need greatly and even in retrospect any player they would chosen at that point would have been seen as a reach.

Comment From Rich M: #9 is stealing $$$$$!!! 4 points then follows with a solid 5 pts in game 2. Is there any hope they move him next season? He is a wonderful defender but will never ever be a #1 option on this team.

Now Rich M. has gone and done it. Marcus Hayes likes Andre Iguodala. He is the Jimmy Rollins of the 76ers for Marcus.

Marcus: ... and he should not be asked to be a No. 1 option.

And yet, he is paid like a #1 option. Therein lies the problem in many people's eyes. It's fine for Iguodala to not be a #1 option, but he gets paid like one.

I find it interesting Hayes jumps on Turner (who gets paid $4.6 million) for not being a franchise player after one year and says he is a complementary player, while he is perfectly fine with Iguodala (who gets paid $12.3 million) not being a No. 1 option because that's not who he is or what he should be asked to do.

You cannot replace Iguodala. You can only enhance him.

Apparently Marcus Hayes believes Iguodala is a robot. Perhaps he believes the Sixers should fine a way to trade Elton Brand so they can free up some money to buy Andre Iguodala the upper-tier offensive player hard drive upgrade. THEY PAID FOR EVAN TURNER'S HARD DRIVE TO BE UPDATED TO THE UPPER-TIER OFFENSIVE UPGRADE, WHY NOT IGUODALA?

Comment From botcho: Is this what we are going to see for yrs to come? One round and done? Any chance they can make moves once the new CBA is in place? Center is a huge hole - they need a body down low and Hawes will never provide that.

Marcus: You would have to have a tradable commodity, which they lack, Teams win without a classic center ... if they defend, rebound and run.

Teams win, but they don't win the NBA Title, which I am assuming is the goal for the Philadelphia 76ers. Over the past five years, these are the starting centers for each team represented in the NBA Finals:

2006: Shaquille O'Neal and Erick Dampier/DeSagnia Diop
2007: Tim Duncan and Zydrunas Illgauskas
2008: Pau Gasol and Kendrick Perkins
2009: Andrew Bynum (though Gasol played most of the minutes) and Dwight Howard
2010: Andrew Bynum and Kendrick Perkins

I would say nearly all of these players are "classic" centers, though some of their talent can be debated. Guys like Dampier, Diop and Illgauskas are still classic centers in height and weight. So, if the 76ers want to win a title or make the NBA Finals I question if they can do it without a classic center.

Comment From Peter: Commenting on Rich M post and your reply. Iguodala is paid as a #1 option!!!!!!!! How is four and 5 points accepted in playoff game? How anyone can defend anything about him is crazy.

Marcus: His paycheck is not his fault.

Well, yes and no it is his fault. Andre Iguodala took the money that was offered by the 76ers when they offered him the contract extension. So it is not his fault concerning the amount they offered him, but the fact he isn't living up to the paycheck, in some people's eyes, is his fault. So merely saying, "his paycheck is not his fault," is blindly defending Iguodala in some ways by ignoring a player who makes that much money will be perceived to close to a franchise guy. Iguodala signed the contract knowing he would have to perform at key points like the playoffs.

Using this same logic, it isn't Evan Turner's fault where the 76ers drafted him either, so the criticism from Marcus Hayes about his performance and how he isn't going to be more than a complementary player shouldn't be held against him. It's not like he could have refused to be picked at the #2 spot in the 2010 NBA Draft.

You forget: He's playing hurt. Really hurt. Come off it.

Granted, Iguodala is playing hurt. That much is true and him playing hurt is admirable. I'm not criticizing Iguodala, but players have played hurt in the playoffs before and scored more than 4 and 5 points in a game.

Comment From bob: I recall Charles Barkley suggesting early in the year that the Sixers should not try so hard to make the playoffs. And, we are now seeing why. That said, if the Sixers are going to draft the likes of Turner second, you have to wonder what difference it would make if they were in the lottery.

Now this is a comment Marcus Hayes has every reason to attack. The Sixers drafted Iguodala 9th in the 2004 draft, Thaddeus Young 12th in the 2007 draft, Jrue Holiday 17th in the 2009 draft, and Lou Williams in the 2nd round of the 2005 draft. So, the Sixers haven't done a terrible job of drafting players and many of the best players on the current team were drafted by the 76ers. This would be a great time for Marcus to point that out.

Marcus: Good point

Or maybe in his boredom with chatting he will just ignore it.

Comment From Ted: Who would you have taken at #2? Favors hasn't been impressive. Maybe Cousins and his risk?

Oh yes, the big question that Marcus Hayes didn't answer earlier while he was critiquing Evan Turner's performance during his rookie year.

Maybe Cousins, but I'd have traded it.

Absolutely the 76ers failed by not trading the #2 overall pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, because we all know for a fact there were other attractive options available to them. I couldn't find any evidence one way or another what Marcus Hayes thought the 76ers should have done, but if this article is an example, trading the pick and not taking Turner wasn't a well-received idea. It is fine to say the 76ers should have traded the pick, but there has to be a team that wants the pick (and apparently take Elton Brand), otherwise the 76ers would just be giving away the #2 pick for little in return.

Comment From Brian: marcus, if the sixers play just as good withhout iggy, why not trade him. I'll take someone with half his defense, that can score atleast 20 points a night

Marcus: The Sixers win 20 games this season without Iguodala.

Wow! Really? Maybe Marcus is getting a bit carried away here? Iguodala was worth 21 games worth of wins this year? Perhaps someone has been overdosing on the crazy pills lately? I don't think the fall-off from Iguodala to the next guy on the depth chart is that drastic. Sure, the Sixers may not have made the playoffs, but to think they would only have 20 wins? No way.

Iguodala played in 67 games this year. The 76ers were 5-11 without Iguodala this year. I know that doesn't add up to 82 games, but I am just going with the stats I have available. That comes up to 25.5 wins over the full season without Iguodala. Of course, as we discussed a few weeks ago here, you can't just simply say Team X would have won X amount of games without a player because there are other variables that go into it, like injuries to and the performance of other players. So Iguodala is important to the 76ers, but I think 20 wins is quite low, the Sixers would win a few more games than that I believe.

Comment From filly: Where do you see the Sixers organization in 5 years?

Marcus: A two seed, with the best pure point guard/defender in the league.

So I guess Marcus anticipates the 76ers landing Chris Paul or Derrick Rose in free agency? Because I know he didn't just say Jrue Holiday would be the best pure point guard/defender in the league in five years. Marcus has such a bizarre pessimistic, while optimistic view of the 76ers. He thinks they have made some bad moves in the draft and won't be able to make too many substantial moves, yet he sees them as a the 2-seed in the Eastern Conference in five years.

Comment From filly: With Doug Collins and the pieces the sixers the perception that free agents wont come here overblown?

Marcus: No.

Thanks for elaborating on this thought. Actually, Hayes does this a lot. He gets asked a question and then gives a one word or a very short response.

Comment From Bonzo: 5 years, a TWO seed? AI and Barkley are the only two top tier players the Sixers have had in 20 years. The drafting ability is atrocious, and constantly picking up mediocre past prime talent (DC, Webber, Robinson, now Brand)....what gives you ANY sense of hope? Until they get lucky with another star draft like AI, we're looking at the same old 5-8 seeds, 1 and done, pick another Rodney Carney clone.

Okay, this may be a bit of a panic on the part of Bonzo...John Bonham is that you asking questions from the grave? After this absolute mess of a question, what does Hayes say in response?

Marcus: ok.

That's it. If he doesn't want to chat, he could just come out and say it. Chatting with Marcus Hayes is like holding a conversation with a teenager.

Comment From filly: its fair to say iggy is never gonna get his batman unless he comes from in house

Marcus: Yes ... Unless a Brand/Young/Iguodala frontline gets it done.

I don't understand the answer to this question. Hayes is pulling a "Joe Morgan" here and answering a question that wasn't asked. What's even more interesting is that Marcus Hayes just said in five years the Sixers will have the best pure point guard/defender in the league on their team. That puts Iguodala at 32 at this time. So I am guessing either the best point guard/defender in the NBA won't be better than Iguodala at any point over the next five years or the best point guard/defender in the NBA isn't a better player than Andre Iguodala in the opinion of Marcus Hayes.

I think it is incredibly interesting that Marcus Hayes doesn't think the Sixers will get a Batman to Iguodala's Robin, and yet he has them as a 2-seed in the NBA playoffs in five years. So is Iguodala going to improve that much or is he wrong about Young or Holiday not being a better player than Iguodala? A team where Iguodala is the best player is not a 2-seed in the Eastern Conference in five years. The Sixers very well could have a bright future, but Hayes poops on their chances of improving over the next five years, except concerning in-house players.

Comment From tony: Marcus, if Thad starts next year where does Iggy play?

Marcus: I'd put them all on the court at the same time in the frontcourt. Play small all the time,.

Let me guess...and then run, rebound, and defend their way into being a 2-seed in five years?

I am not sure I have ever witnessed this bizarre combination of short-term pessimism and long-term optimism from a writer, when that writer acknowledges the team won't get much help from players not currently on the roster in that span because free agents don't want to come to Philadelphia, throw in with the writer's perception the team doesn't draft well. I think Marcus Hayes believes Andre Iguodala may be worth 30+ wins in a season to his team.

Comment From Evo: I'll take the over on the over/under of the Sixers winning 50 games or more next year. You?

Well it depends on if Andre Iguodala plays or not. The 76ers will win 102 games next year with him playing and 19 games without him playing.

Marcus: I'll take the under, until 2013.

The 76ers won 41 games this year without their best player in 16 of those games. For a team that is supposed to be getting good enough to compete for the 2-seed in the Eastern Conference in five years and can't get free agents (for some reason Hayes never explained exactly), they are not going to be able to win 9 more games over the next two years? I find that hard to believe.

Marcus: OK. Gotta catch a flight. Thanks, everybody.

What he means by "Thanks, everybody," is "I hate your fucking questions. Leave me and my Chase Utley-hating soul alone."

So...before I stop writing, I want to focus on something Marcus Hayes said in a February 9th chat about the Phillies. You may remember the other chat I linked earlier in this post from last October and how Hayes took anger out on Chase Utley and said the following things in that chat:

About Jimmy Rollins:

[Comment From Doc: ]
Do you expect a rebound kind of year from J-Roll in 2011, or a continued decline? It's a contract year, but he's another year older.

Big rebound. 30 hit him in the gut this year.

[Comment From Erik L.: ]
Can Jimmy Rollins ever hit 25+ home runs again? Or is that portion of his career over?

I think he's got 30 in him hitting 5th.

So in October, a big rebound from Jimmy Rollins was expected by Marcus Hayes. He thought Rollins could hit 30 home runs in the 5th spot in the lineup. Of course, Hayes was spending most of his time in this chat race-baiting and making outlandish claims, so maybe he was just having a bad day. Let's see what Marcus thinks of Rollins now...

Comment From Duke Fame:
J-Roll: Bounce back year or will this be his last season in red and white pinstripes?

Marcus: Not sure how much he CAN bounce back.

So in October a big rebound was expected from Jimmy Rollins and in February he CAN'T rebound any more than he has already. This is interesting since Rollins has seemingly been regressing over the past couple of years.

A .280/20HR/80RBI/110 runs year for Jimmy is what he is, at this point.

Rollins has hit these four levels in a season exactly once in his career and that was the year he won the MVP in 2007. So at this point, Jimmy Rollins is not at this level and he has been at this level exactly once in his 10 full seasons in the majors, yet this is what Marcus Hayes believes Rollins "is" right now. It's fun to think this is true though isn't it?

Which should make him an abvious extension candidate.

Well, obviously. Why not extend a 33 year old shortstop that is showing declining statistics and may start having injury seen in his response to the next question.

Comment From scott: What are the chances it was just injuries/off years for Rollins and Utley and not a trend downward?

: Hmmm. Is there a difference? Maybe this is the beginning of a slew of injuries ...

I am not sure we can ever really know what Marcus Hayes thinks about Jimmy Rollins. In October he said Rollins is worth more hitting .250 than Utley is worth hitting .300 with 30 home runs. Then in this chat from February he said Utley could make an MVP run with 30 home runs and a .300 average. Undoubtedly, Hayes would still think Rollins is a more valuable player for the Phillies if Utley did win the MVP with a .300 average and 30 home runs.

In October, Marcus said Jimmy Rollins is going to have a big rebound from his 2010 year. Then in February said Rollins wouldn't rebound, he would just stay at the same level he has been at exactly once in his career, in 2007 when he won the MVP.

The one thing we do know for sure is that Marcus Hayes does not like chatting with you.


rich said...

The thing about the Sixers is that their MO seems to be the "mediocre to slightly above average" team.

Looking at the lineup, they have some nice pieces, but the lineup doesn't have enough talent to make a push to be a 50 game winner, I mean they won 41 games this year and most of us fans were shocked.

They have some nice pieces, but a lot of them play the same friggin' position. Arguably our four best players (Iggy, Thad, Lou and Jrue) play two positions... that's not a real good sign.

The result of this is moving players to positions they're not as good at. They've tried Turner at SG andt hey've moved Thad to PF at times; when that happens you can't expect the players to be as effective.

Another problem with the Sixers is that they always seem to draft "safe" players. They don't reach on a guy who has a chance to become great, they go with a guy who will be solid, but not great. They don't have many real busts, but they also don't have many "glad we drafted that guy" types either.

That said, to criticize Turner for not being a franchise player right now is absurd. The guy barely played because he plays the team's most loaded position. I know they tried to mix him in a SG, but I think the team has completely forgotten how to utilize a SG since AI left. I mean, Jodie fucking Meeks is the starting SG, so the plays that are in the playbook aren't suited for Turner's skillset, they're geared for Jody's.

The hilarious thing to me is that Hayes loves Jrue, but forgets how awful he was last year. So Jrue has a terrible rookie season and then comes back and shows flashes of being very good and Hayes slobbers on him, but Turner comes out and has a bad rookie season and the guy is done?

Is Turner going to be a number 1 on a playoff team? Probably not. However, that's not what he was expected to be, at least to me. Like you said BGF, there's no one else I would have taken at number 2, so the Sixers were kind of obligated to take him, but they really didn't need another player like Turner. He's just going to sit on the bench and rot away.

rich said...

As for the Phillies analysis, I really don't know what to say.

Back in February, did Hayes seriously think that Rollins would be in the five hole? Seriously? The only reason he's hitting fifth right now is because of injuries to Brown and Utley, neither of which were known about in February, so I have to think that Hayes really thought Charlie would bat Rollins fifth, which is insane.

Jimmy Rollins is overrated, but he's still an effective lead-off hitter, to put him in the five hole is the sign of an injury laden offense.

When it comes to an extension though, this is where all the trades come back to bite you in the ass. The Phillies don't really have anyone who can step up and be an everyday player if they let Rollins go. Who are they going to use? Pete Orr? Wilson Valdez? Jason Donald seemed to be the heir apparent, but they shipped him out for Lee, so they're kind of left in a position where they have to resign Rollins and hope that he doesn't hit rock bottom.

Bengoodfella said...

Rich, Marcus Hayes thinks the Sixers should play Thaddeus Young to PF and play small. Not sure I like this idea. It is an issue with the way the draft has fallen for the Sixers to not be able to get better players at other positions.

I think you about covered it. Jrue Holiday had a mediocre 1st year, though he was very young, and he is now developing so that makes him one of the team's best players. He won't give Turner that much time. I think the Sixers should have probably drafted Cousins last year, at least in retrospect, but it is not like he doesn't have his own issues that come with him.

It was such a tough thing for the Sixers that Turner was the 2nd best player b/c of the reasons you stated. The Sixers are good at a couple of positions. I wonder if they could move one of those guys for another player at a position of need?

Hayes said Rollins should be batting 5th and would hit 30 home runs. That's where he said he should be. Nevermind this was negate many of the positive attributes he has a lead-off man, though I would like for him to have a higher OBP. He really thought that's where Rollins should hit. He has an inflated sense of what Rollins can do I think. Not to demean Rollins, but he isn't quite the player Marcus Hayes thinks he is...few players are!

I think the Phillies re-sign Rollins too. They could probably find another guy through trade or on the free agent market, but keeping Rollins is probably important. I think they'll be fine, but you are right some of the trades left them with fewer options. It's part of the problem that occurs in having such a great pitching staff.