Monday, January 25, 2010

23 comments MMQB: Peter King Really Hates Overtime Now Edition

Wow. As if watching Peyton Manning pick apart the Jets defense wasn't exciting enough yesterday, we got a great game between the Vikings and Saints that was won in overtime without the Vikings touching the ball. Peter King already hates the NFL overtime rules, this has only made it worse now that his favorite NFL player, Brett Favre has lost the NFC Championship Game because he didn't get to touch the ball in overtime. This is the closest thing we can get to a Peter King sports-related apocalypse. I have a feeling this is not the last we will hear of Peter's thoughts on this issue. To him this is unacceptable.

I have two questions after the Vikings-Saints game and these questions are related to Brett Favre:

1. Is it necessary to show his wife 8-9 separate times during the game? Does the entire Favre family just naturally gravitate towards a camera?

2. Which team is Brett Favre going to play for next year after he "retires" from the Vikings?

I also have what may be the funniest and most ironic quote in NFL history. After watching Favre's press conference on ESPN where you couldn't help but feel some sympathy for him, it got kicked back to Chris Berman who said, "Say what you will about Brett Favre, but he is always brutally honest."

Ummmm...he is the very opposite of brutally honest. He may talk honestly at press conferences but I still wouldn't call him brutally honest overall.

The cries symbolized 43 years of frustration ending, and the wailing of repeated "Who Dat!'' chants, which young and old screamed through the weekend and into this morning in a raucous celebration in the French Quarter, finally got to someone in the room.

"[Bleep] Who Dat!'' came an angry voice from the cluster of the offensive linemen's stalls.

Who Dat who said this I wonder? My guess is Steve Hutchinson. It's just a guess.

The Vikings will have to live with their bitterest loss in a generation for a long, long time. Thirty-one first downs, outgaining the Saints by 218 yards, rendering Reggie Bush (seven carries, eight yards) irrelevant

Reggie Bush is generally irrelevant as a running back anyway. He had 390 rushing yards this year. He has less than 2,000 yards rushing for his career, so he is pretty irrelevant as a running back.

Regardless, the Vikings pretty much owned this game and probably deserved to win it. If the Vikings hadn't fumbled the ball 6 times and missed 2 field goals, they probably would have easily won this game. I was very unimpressed with the Saints play calling and found them to be pretty conservative offensively. I don't know if it was how the Vikings were playing them or the Saints game plan, but I didn't care for the Saints offensively. The Saints were the better team last night, but it didn't always look that way.

I'll get to the triumphs of the weekend, the Colts' second AFC title in four years and the Saints' first in forever, but I've got to touch on the Vikings first.

Well naturally we should focus on one of the teams that lost a championship game and didn't make the Super Bowl first. It's only natural we focus and talk about the Vikings first after the Saints made the 1st Super Bowl in 43 years of the franchise's existence.

Whoever lost the game here was going to feel it for a long time, but the fact that Minnesota may have lost on a 12-men-in the-huddle penalty, followed by a horrendous Brett Favre interception in the last pass of his season

Horrendous doesn't accurately describe that pass. I have jokingly said Favre threw the game away against the Giants two years ago in the NFC Championship Game. I was wrong. This year he actually threw the game away because the Vikings were in Longwell's field goal range and Favre could have easily run 5 yards (even on that "bum" ankle) and gotten the penalty yards back.


Dear God Peter, please don't start with this shit already. I don't care if Brett Favre retires or not, mostly I just want him to make a decision and stick with it. Let's not fuel speculation before he actually announces something? Is that too hard to do?

"Poor Breleigh,'' Brett Favre said almost inaudibly, after hugging half of his organization and getting emotional with a few fellows, mostly Sidney Rice. Breleigh's the daughter who urged him so strongly to come back last summer, and now Favre was thinking how distraught she must be. "I'm sure her heart's broken.''

You know what, I don't like to attack athlete's families with the same anger I attack athletes here, but I am just incredibly tired of Peter King, Brett Favre, and FOX showing/talking about Favre's family in relation to his athletic career. All three people/networks act as if Favre is the only NFL player whose family cheers for him and who are affected by wins and losses. They all act as if Breleigh, Brittany, and Deanna are the only wives and daughters that care about their husband/father on the football field. No one gives a shit if Breleigh is upset. A lot of families are upset, Favre's family doesn't get extra sympathy simply because he mentions them constantly.

I am sure the families of every Vikings player are upset right now, except those guys aren't trying to get sympathy from the media and Peter King. Also, those Vikings players aren't the ones that literally threw the season away by throwing the worst interception at the worst possible time. So no sympathy is granted to the Favres. Seriously, Brett Favre and Peter King need to quit talking about Favre's family so often. There are other families in the NFL that care about their husbands/fathers who play football.

No matter what you think of Favre -- and it's no secret that through his ugly divorce with the Packers and his unending waffling about playing or not playing that he's the most charismatic and interesting player I've covered in my life -- you've got to admire how he bleeds in front of us.

Peter King would literally marry Brett Favre if given the opportunity. I would be shocked if there wasn't something in Peter King's will that is going to Brett Favre when Peter passes away. Shocked.

He goes out and gets the snot knocked out of him ("We were determined to hit him over and over and make him feel it,'' said none other than his old friend with the Packers, Saints safety Darren Sharper), somehow survives, then makes a throw he never should have made.

Do you know how Favre makes these throws he never should have made? He isn't that hurt. Yeah, the guy is a drama queen about a lot of things and "playing injured" is one of them. I am sure Favre is hurt, but it's so funny how he limped on to the field last night, but then could roll out to his right and throw with what seemed to be little problems from his ankle.

"I thought when I got hit [the high-low Saints sandwich late in the third quarter], my ankle was broken,'' he told me. "I felt a lot of crunching in there.''

The crunching could also be because Favre is forty and his bones aren't in tip-top shape anymore. Of course Favre thought the ankle was broken, because it's more dramatic that way...but it wasn't broken. He got helped off the field in a dramatic fashion, he had tape put on it and went back in the game. He got treated the same way a running back with a tweaked ankle gets treated. Usually running backs jump back in the game and don't require help off the field.

I told him I thought it was a late hit, with the lower hit a good example of why the Tom Brady rule was put in this year. Favre released the ball and was hit high by one rusher and low by another; the low hit looked like the kind of hit below the waist that deserved a flag, but the 'Dome was still ringing with boos from a roughing-the-passer call four plays earlier when New Orleans lineman Anthony Hargrove drove Favre into the ground (a textbook call for driving a quarterback from the air into the ground with the force the rusher's body).

Peter King thought both of these were penalties. There's the smallest shock in the world. The hit low on Favre wasn't at his ankle or knee and the only reason his ankle or knee got hurt was because he got hit up top as well. Look, the Saints got the benefit of some penalty calls in the game, especially towards the end, but this wasn't one of them. There were already 2 fishy roughing-the-passer calls in that game already when the officials were trying to protect Favre.

"Tomorrow,'' he said, "the whole foot will be purple. My thigh, right there, will be purple. My wrist [with a chunk of skin missing] will be purple.

As well every other player who played in a football game yesterday. Somehow Favre gets to be special with the injuries he suffers during a game.

As for the question all of America is asking this morning -- how in the world could you have thrown that pass?

He tends to make terrible decisions?

Last week we talked a little bit about the greatest quarterbacks of all-time and I was convinced Favre was up there and I don't want to say he isn't, at least not right now. I did ask myself today of those Top 10 quarterbacks of all-time, how many of them would have made that terrible pass? I couldn't think of one that may do it. I like to think every quarterback but Favre would have made a better decision. I don't know if this tells us something or not.

"I probably should have ran it,'' Favre said. "In hindsight, that's probably what I should have done. It was just late to Sidney.''

"It was just late?" That's freaking it? It was also across his body into the middle of the damn field. He's going to get killed for making that pass, as well he should. No quarterback in either AFC/NFC Championship Game should make that throw in that spot. Nor would any quarterback and that includes Mark Sanchez. I can't believe Favre dismissed the pass as "just late" when it was a terrible idea to begin if he had thrown the ball earlier it would have been a good idea to throw the ball across his body into a zone defense.

So he called a roll pass for Favre, and the rest is history. As I said, I don't think the blame for this loss should be on Childress by any means, but he certainly did his part to muck it up in the last 2:37.

Childress didn't exactly light the world on fire with his clock management, but the bottom line is that the Vikings STILL WOULD HAVE WON THE GAME if Favre didn't throw the interception and just run a few yards into the wide open space that was there. So Peter can blame Childress, but the Vikings were in a position to win the regardless of Childress' poor clock management.

Player after player in the Saints' locker room talked about winning one for the city. And they did

This is where Peter writes 2 short paragraphs and 3 one or two sentence paragraphs about the winning team. This is about as much as Peter covers the Saints win in the NFC Championship Game. We very few quotes from the Saints. Hell, he doesn't even talk about the Jets and Colts in the first couple of pages of this MMQB. Actually he barely even mentions the Jets and only slightly talks about the AFC Championship Game. Peter focuses on the important issues, like how Brett Favre's family is taking the loss.

I won't repeat every one of my objections to the rule that puts an inordinate amount of importance on the coin flip on overtime winners, but the NFC game was a classic case of why it's a bad idea to not give each team one possession in overtime:

Here we go. Peter King wants the NFL overtime changed. I think after this game it is going to happen. Peyton Manning losing a playoff game without ever touching the ball is one thing, Brett Favre losing a game without touching the ball is something completely different.

Florida quarterback Tim Tebow steps into the NFL crucible, onto a practice field ringed by coaches and scouts, at the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala., beginning a week of practice, meetings and face-to-face visits with prospective NFL employers. Tebow will play for the South Team, coached by the Miami Dolphins staff (Jim Schwartz's Lions staff has the North), with respected quarterback teacher and technician David Lee of the Dolphins handling his day-to-day regimen on the practice field.

I have a feeling we are going to be going from the Brett Favre love-fest era to the Tim Tebow love-fest era very soon. It will probably be even more annoying.

Tebow will wow everyone he meets one-on-one in Mobile and at the Scouting Combine next month with his poise, presence and humility.

He will then underwhelm them with his arm strength, throwing motion, and overall lack of current capability to be an NFL quarterback.

When I asked about one of the biggest faults NFL scouts find with him -- his elongated throwing motion -- he said it's something scouts also said about Brett Favre and Philip Rivers when they were prospects, and it hasn't seemed to hurt them.

No, it didn't, but the throwing motion for those two guys was one of the only question marks scouts had about them. Tebow should realize there are other questions the NFL scouts have. Maybe in a couple of years Tebow is going to be a great starting quarterback, but he is a project and teams generally don't draft project quarterbacks in the 1st round of the NFL draft.

They taught us football. So I want the NFL people to put me through everything. Grind on me, test me.

Oh, Peter King will grind on you and test you. Don't you worry about that Tim Tebow.

Last year, 15 underclassmen were first-round draft choices. This year, there should be at least that many, and it's conceivable that as many as 18 to 20 could go in the first round. I asked, a site I use and respect around draft day, to rank the top juniors --and where they rank in the first-round draft order. (The comments here belong to player analyst Rob Rang; the number indicates where the player's projected to be picked.)

I love talking NFL prospects. Let's do this and I will bash the ones I don't think will be good and then possibly regret it (Brian Orakpo) in a year or so.

4. QB Sam Bradford, Oklahoma

Really, this guy has Bradford going at #4 in the draft? Rob Rang must think Bradford is going to eliminate all questions about his shoulder before/after the Combine. I like Bradford but I can't believe he is going #4, at least at this point.

8. DE Carlos Dunlap, Florida

Not a fan of Dunlap. He reminds me of Julius Peppers and not in a good way. He wins the annual Vernon Gholston "I Look Like a Football Player But Don't Play That Well" award in my mind.

11. WR Dez Bryant, Oklahoma State

Some scouts say he goes up and gets the ball like Randy Moss did in his prime.

Except for the fact Bryant is only 6 feet 2 inches tall or two inches shorter, this comparison may make more sense. I wonder what the other scouts say about Dez Bryant?

29. WR Damian Williams, USC

Oh great, a USC receiver. I guess because they have panned out so well lately this makes Damiam Williams stock rise in the draft? I know there are good USC wide receivers in the NFL, but just based on my experience you couldn't pay me to take a USC receiver. I am too scarred by Dwayne Jarrett and Keary Colbert.

Offensive Player of the Week

Peyton Manning, QB, Indianapolis.

The Jets, the NFL's best defense in 2009, hadn't allowed a 320-yard passer all season. They hadn't allowed a 420-yard day by any offense. In Indianapolis, Manning threw for 377 -- and the Colts gained 461. Under the circumstances -- the pressure of not losing to a five seed at home, facing a pre-eminent defense -- the 26-of-39, three-touchdown, no-interception, 123.6-rating game was probably the best playoff game of Manning's 12-year career.

I bet that game caused Peyton Manning to move up in John Clayton's all-time quarterback rankings. More annoying things have happened, but I still don't think it makes sense to me.

Goat of the Week

Come on, who should this potentially be? There's no standout candidate, other than Adrian Peterson, except for one person who otherwise had a great game but made an incredibly boneheaded decision.

The fumblers, Minnesota.

All five of them, for a total of six. In particular, Adrian Peterson, who lost his seventh fumble of the season, and scrambled to recover what would have been his eighth. In addition, Peterson and Brett Favre mishandled a handoff together. Favre was credited with the fumble, but it could have gone either way.


The last significant pass of the last game of Brett Favre's last three seasons, all with different teams:

DatePeriodResultInterceptorFinal score
1-20-08 (Packers)OTInterceptedCorey Webster, GiantsGiants, 23-20
12-28-08 (Jets)*4InterceptedAndre Goodman, MiamiDolphins, 24-17
1-24-10 (Vikings)4InterceptedTracy Porter, New OrleansSaints, 31-28

I really think this is just coincidence and just a weird type of thing to happen. Still, it doesn't help the impression people get that he is interception prone and prone to take unnecessary risks. Seriously, that pass last night against the Saints was inexcusable. He threw across his body into the middle of the field into a zone defense. I almost felt bad for him...almost.

Room service order-takers. If it's happened to me once this year, it's happened 10 times -- getting pushed to order things you don't want. Working in my room in New Orleans Sunday, I picked up the phone to order the following: three-egg omelet with onion and tomato, ice water, small pot of coffee, cream.

Got that? Not a small CUP of coffee, but a small POT of coffee. That's what Peter ordered.

b. It's amazing how few people with existing jobs want to work under Lovie Smith in Chicago. That always says as much about how tenuous a head coach's job security is as anything else.

I don't find this amazing at all. Why would someone who currently has a job want to work under a coach who may not have a job soon? I don't think it is amazing currently employed individuals would choose to stay where they currently are. I would find this amazing if few people who DON'T have jobs want to work under Lovie Smith.

f. Biggest play a player regrets of the day: New Orleans linebacker Scott Shanle staring an Adrian Peterson fumble right in front of him with a 21-14 lead, knowing that a recovery would be a gigantic momentum swing. Instead of diving on the ball, he tried to pick it up and run with it. And failed. The Vikings recovered and scored the tying touchdown a couple of minutes later.

The Saints tried to pick up probably every single fumble, except one, in yesterday's game. Fall on the ball! How hard is this to understand and do? I didn't care who won the game, but I was yelling at the Saints to pick up a fumble at the television quite often.

j. The ref in New Orleans, Tony Corrente, had to make the call on Anthony Hargrove for driving Brett Favre into the ground. Had to. Driving the quarterback from off the ground into the ground is a no-brainer call.

As Troy Aikman correctly said (and how many times will I start a sentence with those words?), Favre was already falling backwards and Hargrove didn't drive Favre into the ground, he was already leaning back and Hargrove just tackled him. It was a borderline call and I didn't disagree with it necessarily, but it wasn't a no-brainer call like Peter King wants us to all believe.

There were more borderline bad calls than this one on the last Saints drive, so I don't know why Peter is focused on this one.

4. I think Adrian Peterson has to go to the Tiki Barber School of Curing Fumbleitis. And soon. Like this week. How can you trust him right now, even after a three-touchdown game like the one he had in the Dome? If I'm Brad Childress, I'm keeping Chester Taylor around next year.

Peter King, intelligent personnel guy strikes again. You mean the Vikings should keep a quality back up running back on the roster? They should keep a guy who can catch passes and run the ball well? Is Peter sure this is a good decision?

f. Jared Allen. If I were a quarterback, he'd scare me. Great moves, even when he's locked by one behemoth and chipped by another.

What is Peter's fascination with Jared Allen? What impressed Peter so much yesterday about Allen's 2 tackle performance? That's the kind of performance Peter would kill Julius Peppers for putting up in an NFC Championship Game.

b. Kickers. The infection has settled in on Jay Feely.

(Because I am not an editing asshole who covers up his mistakes, I in my cold medicine haze decided Jay Feely should play for the Vikings. He doesn't obviously and I am an idiot. For the record, Feely is a goat for missing those field goals and not helping his team cover the spread...for the Jets) Feely is an underrated goat in the Vikings-Saints game. He went 1-3 and either made field goal would have caused the game to not go into overtime obviously. There are so many goats for the Vikings, it makes me wonder if the Saints are really the better team. I think they are, but I also think the Saints could play better offensively then they did yesterday.

d. Not positive about the Ben Leber interference call on the game-winning overtime drive for the Saints, but it looked uncatchable to me.

Tough borderline call. It looked uncatchable, but we don't know since Thomas was interfered with...and I think that was the point of the passing interference call.

9. I think you'd have enjoyed the dinner I shared with sportswriter pals and the girlfriend of one of them Saturday night at Emeril's Delmonico on St. Charles.

I guarantee you I would not have enjoyed it. Guaranteed.

Anyway, I rounded up a few writers (some I don't know well but should) and we had a nice meal ... and I proposed a pool for the nine people at the table. Throw $5 in the pool, and pick the team that drafts Tim Tebow.

You were all talking about Tim Tebow? In that case I definitely wouldn't have enjoyed it.

Jason Cole, Yahoo!Sports (Gainesville, Fla.) New England

And the crowd went "Ooooooooh,'' on Cole's pick of the Pats.

Because Bill Belichick is the only coach smart enough in the NFL to know how to use Tim Tebow correctly? Or is it because the Patriots should trade Brady and build the entire team around that idiot reader suggested in one of Peter's mailbags.

a. My very best wishes to one of the classic and classy men in the NFL business, longtime Packer PR man Lee Remmel, who is ailing in Green Bay. He was always one of Brett Favre's favorites. He called Favre in his deep voice, "Brett Lorenzo Favre,'' and Favre once played one of the great bus-to-the-stadium jokes on Remmel anyone has ever played.

How interesting that Peter's memory of Lee Remmel happens to include a Brett Favre memory as well. It's almost like Peter's world revolves around Favre and everything he says or does is framed in how Brett Favre fit into the picture at the time.

e. Those of you who travel a lot will understand why the best news of the week for me was squeezing into the Conrad Hotel in Indianapolis for the upcoming NFL Scouting Combine. What a gem of a hotel.

What a gem. They even have coffee ready for it's visitors at 6am and they never overbook like that filthy whore of a hotel the Mariott does.


RuleBook said...

-If the Vikings hadn't fumbled the ball 6 times and missed 2 field goals, they probably would have easily won this game.

Feely is an underrated goat in the Vikings-Saints game. He went 1-3 and either made field goal would have caused the game to not go into overtime obviously.

Jay Feely is the Jets kicker. The Vikings did not attempt a FG at any point in the game. I'm fairly confident Feely should not be blamed for the Vikings loss.

rich said...

No matter what you think of Favre -- and it's no secret that through his ugly divorce with the Packers and his unending waffling about playing or not playing that he's the most charismatic and interesting player I've covered in my life -- you've got to admire how he bleeds in front of us.

"I don't care what you think about him, I love me some Brett." Wasn't this the same guy who killed Meyer for waffling and Kiffin for leaving a job for a better one (like leaving the Jets for the Vikings)?

When I asked about one of the biggest faults NFL scouts find with him -- his elongated throwing motion -- he said it's something scouts also said about Brett Favre and Philip Rivers when they were prospects, and it hasn't seemed to hurt them.

Far be it from me to criticize his throwing motion, but there's a huge difference b/w Rivers' throwing motion coming out of college and Tebow's (I never saw Favre in college). That is Rivers throws three-quarter arm, so naturally his throw starts low. Tebow throws over the ear, but starts his throws down by his thigh. There's a reason every coach worth their salary teach people to hold the ball up high the entire time: reduce fumbles and shorten release time. Tebow's throws take forever, which is fine in college, but in the NFL where half a second is the difference b/w a pick and a completion, Tebow can't succeed unless he changes his mechanics.

I really think this is just coincidence and just a weird type of thing to happen.

I don't really think it's a coicidence. Favre is old, got hit a lot in two of those games (the NFC championships), so by the end of the game he was making some awful throws. The throw last night was inexcusable. The throw in GB against the Giants was another piss poor decision. If I remember the pick against Miami, isn't it the one he just chucked it into the defender's chest? I don't think you can say it's a coincidence when it's the result of three passes that should never have happened.

Biggest play a player regrets of the day:

Why would the Saints player regret that play? They won. You know who should be regretting a big play? Favre.

I think Adrian Peterson has to go to the Tiki Barber School of Curing Fumbleitis. And soon. Like this week.

This week? He has an entire off-season to work on it. Also: Tiki stopped fumbling when Coughlin came on board. Brad Childress couldn't teach AP how to hold a loaf of bread properly.

I'm saddened by the lack of coverage on where PK thinks Tebow will end up. San Francisco? Don't they already have a qb with a crappy arm (I think they may have two actually) who was highly touted out of college playing in a system run by Urban Meyer? What's his name? Oh right Alex Smith. SF revisit that terrible pick again and draft a QB with an eerily similar skill set, playing the EXACT SAME OFFENSE, under the exact same coach. Do it, you'll win like 10 super bowls.

RuleBook said...

-I honestly blame Childress for that loss. Yes, Favre threw the horrible pass, but if they hadn't been settling for a 50 yard FG, but rather had been attempting to get closer, Favre wouldn't have been in a situation where he felt he had to gain yards, and he could have thrown the ball away. Childress botched that last drive in my opinion. The Favre throw was awful, but if Childress didn't play so conservatively at the end, I doubt Favre attempts to make that throw.

-In my opinion, the overtime rules are just fine as is. In the regular season this year, the team that won the coin toss was 7-6. Five of those victories came on the first possession. What that means is that the team that loses the coin toss and stops the receiving team's opening drive wins 75% of the time.

In my opinion, a team's defense and special teams are as important as the offense, and if a team's defense can't make one crucial stop, then they should have lost.

I don't like the idea of playing more minutes of overtime than absolutely necessary, due to injury and fatigue concerns, so I am against anything that makes the game longer than it currently is.

There are only two tweaks I would make to the overtime system:

1) Flip a coin at the start of the game for potential overtime rather than at the start of overtime. If a team knows who is going to get the ball at the start of overtime, they can play accordingly at the end of regulation. This would also likely increase the percentage of teams that try to win by going for two rather than go to overtime, which could lead to much more exciting finishes.

2) Make the Super Bowl overtime a full quarter. I'm against increased overtimes before the Super Bowl, because they yield an increased injury risk, which puts the team at a disadvantage in future games. However, for the last game of the season, this is not an issue, as there are no future games.

I know my stance is not a popular one, and the system is not perfect, but I have never been convinced that a better system exists.

Bengoodfella said...

Rulebook, thanks for pointing that out. Don't ask, I edited a part in the post apologizing for it. All I can guess is that in my cold medicine haze I thought Jay Feely should play for the Vikings. I don't know...

Rich, Peter is the same guy who knocked Kiffin for walking out on his team. Apparently he doesn't think Favre's waffling hurts his teams at all.

I am not an NFL scout or anything, as you could probably tell, but you are right. Tebow's motion is SO LONG and he holds the ball down where guys like Mathis and Freeney would love a chance to strip it. I think people have blinders on when it comes to Tebow. He is not that close to being an NFL QB and if he was an asshole then he would be taken in the 4th-5th round.

I called it a coincidence because I am trying to be nice to Favre since I have beaten him down so much. He did play pretty well yesterday, but he has a problem with untimely interceptions. It probably isn't coincidence so I shouldn't be nice.

I think Peter truly believes the Vikings won and the Saints have regrets. You are right they don't. Favre should regret that pass. It was just terrible.

If I am not wrong, Barber learned to hold the ball higher at his chest and that helped him not fumble.

Haha, great call on the Tebow/Smith in San Fran connection. I didn't even think about that. I think we are all going to get Tebow-ed out over the next decade and especially the next 2 months.

KentAllard said...

Rivers, Favre and a lot of other QBs needed their throwing motion tweaked when they went to the NFL. Tebow will need his completely rebuilt, since he drops the ball as low as I've ever seen a quarterback do. Not saying he won't make the adjustment, but like you said, he's a project. I don't see the Patriots being the team to draft him, since, love'em or hate'em, they make shrewd personnel decisions, and I don't see them them trying this experiment unless Tebow is available in the 5th round or later.

My favorite/most irritating part of the column was PK complaining about the young lady at the desk getting one thing wrong on his order - a bottle of water instead of "ice water". That's why she read the order back to you, Favrefellator, so you could tell her if there was a mistake. But nice indignation over a $3.00 charge that SI would have paid, anyway.

KBilly said...

Mike and Dog Super Bowl Trivia - PLEASE HELP WITH ANSWERS

Both Mike and Dog are holding Super Bowl Trivia contests this week. Both Mike and Dog are offering five all-expense trips to Miami if you can answer 4 progressively difficult Super Bowl Trivia questions. Let's band together and maybe one of us can win.

Bengoodfella said...

Rulebook, I can see your point. I don't like NFL overtime, but mostly I just don't like it because the game has ended and then who gets the ball is decided by a coin flip. I feel like if they flip the coin at the beginning of the game, it would help the coaches better strategize as to what they want to do at the end of the game.

For me NFL overtime is like the BCS a little bit. I don't hate the overall system, and I think with a few tweaks the system could change and be made better. Most people I have read want each team to get a possession and then go to sudden death OT, and I hate this idea.

The more think about it and see a lot of Vikings fans are blaming Childress, the more I think they may be right. Childress probably should have thrown the ball more towards the end of the game. The ironic part is that by not throwing the ball so as not to throw an interception, he helped set up Favre's interception.

The lesson? You can never stop Brett Favre from throwing an interception. It will happen no matter what you try to do.

Kent, I think if a team took Tebow in the 3rd/4th round that would be fine and then try to give him a couple of years to develop, then I would be for that. I watch him throw and see a few problems that I know are fixable but it will take time. There are three parts of his motion and QB skills that make me nervous. First, how low he brings the ball, second he takes a long time to release the ball (which could be b/c of his low motion) and the fact he doesn't take snaps from under center and he will have to do that at some point in the NFL. That's not an easy adjustment.

Peter King just needed to bitch about something and the water was his bitch fest of the week.

KBilly, so we need to listen to the show and then write in the comments our answers to the questions? Do I have that right?

Kevin said...

This was my favorite part of the whole thing:

Before he went to his postgame press conference, he talked to me quietly for a couple of minutes, then to a couple of others in a growing group around his locker.

After Brett got finished with his inner circle of closest friends, then he went out to address the rest of the ordinary media folk. But just remember, he spoke to me first and the most privately!

Kevin said...

Also, has anyone ever seen a full-sized trainer's table on the sideline of an NFL game before?

You always see a trainer attending to players on the bench before, but that's the first time I've ever seen that.

If I didn't know any better, it's almost there just so we can see how much pain Brett is toughing it out through.

Ooh, look. Regular-guy Brett is putting his own sock on and hopping back out there! What a warrior.

HH said...

When I asked about one of the biggest faults NFL scouts find with him -- his elongated throwing motion -- he said it's something scouts also said about Brett Favre and Philip Rivers when they were prospects, and it hasn't seemed to hurt them.

King breathes. Osama bin Laden breathes. Therefore Peter King is a terrorist.

I hate hate hate this sort of reasoning. "Elongated motion? This hall of famer had an elongated motion." Sure. So did about 600 drafted quarterbacks who washed out in two years. For a fair comparison, compare Tebow with every college QB who was drafted with questions about a slow release. How many of those did well? My guess is not very many, meaning that the odds of Tebow doing well are low.

Learn some basic statistics, King.

brent daniels said...

For some reason I was totally pumped about seeing King's article today and how he was gonna give Favre none of the blame for the loss. Joe Buck mentioned at least 6 times that Peterson fumbled 3 times even though it was Favre who got credit for the fumble because he didn't put the ball in the right spot. He threw two picks and also had at least a couple more that defenders dropped, but of course its the refs fault.
By the way I might be in the minority, but I'm pretty sure King would agree that it was more Feely's fault then Favres even though he didn't play in the same game.

Bengoodfella said...

Kevin, that's exactly what Peter wanted us to know. That he got preferential treatment from Favre. Of course if I was Peter's editor or boss I would ask him where all this access is getting us...and the answer would be no fucking where because Peter can't even get a scoop from Favre on any issue. So basically it is just a friendship Peter brags about.

I think I have seen a full size trainer table in college football, but not in the least not lately. It's probably in his contract that the bench have a table so he can display his tremendous pain threshold.

HH, that's a situation where Peter WANTS to be wrong about Tebow, so he cites the examples of players who did well with the elongated motion, but not the ones who failed. How about Byron Leftwich? He had a slow release. Not to mention I don't recall the criticism that Favre had a slow release coming out of college. Maybe I just missed that though.

You had a good point though about how Peter has latched on to this criticism and tried to make it look like more QB's have overcome the slow release problem. It's Tebow's entire motion that's a problem.

Heck, even Brian Billick had trouble saying positive things about it and he could have ended up coaching Tebow in the NFL at some point.

KentAllard said...

Favre had a quick release in college, but was a little flat throwing the ball, not keeping it as high as the pros liked. He sat on the bench in Atlanta for a year due to problems with his work ethic, and by the time he was in GB the next year his motion was fine.

Bengoodfella is right, the closest analogy is Leftwich, another guy with a slow release who has never been able to overcome it. And I do imagine the way Tebow drops the ball is a big part of the slow release.

He could be the Darrius Heyward-Bey of the next draft: If someone drafts hi high, the expectations will be unreasonable, but if he goes later, he will have a better chance to develop.

Bengoodfella said...

Sadly Brent, I too was excited about Peter's column today. I don't think that says something nice about me. I thought he would apologize more for Favre, which also says what I think about Peter since he did some apologizing for Favre.

I think PK would probably think Feely had more to do with the Vikings loss than Favre.

Kent, I actually googled the scouting report on Favre and couldn't come up with anything. I remember early in his career the ball tended to rise on him early in the game and he would throw some bad passes until he settled down.

It's funny because now that I have mentioned it. Leftwich is a GREAT example for Tebow. They both had long releases and had intangibles everyone wanted (Remember his Marshall teammates carrying Leftwich when his leg was hurt?). It didn't lead to pro success. I remember Leftwich was all intangibles out of college and they would fix his release. It never happened.

Good analogy to DHB. If he is drafted in the 1-2 rounds I will think they took him too early, but I like Tebow after that...even if the 3rd round is being a bit kind.

NFL Draft said...

You know what, I don't like to attack athlete's families with the same anger I attack athletes here, but I am just incredibly tired of Peter King, Brett Favre, and FOX showing/talking about Favre's family in relation to his athletic career.
This sounds so bad for the NFL Draft.I think you have endured for a long time.Never mind.Just say what you want say.

rich said...

The problem I think with Tebow is that he doesn't do any one thing spectacularly well. He's not an overpowering runner (in the NFL), he's not fast (even for a QB), he doesn't have the arm strength and from what I've seen he doesn't really put touch on the ball appropriately.

If you think about QBs who went to the NFL as "athletes," they typically excel in one of those areas. Brad Smith (speed and athleticism), Antwan Randle El (speed), Matt Jones (height and speed), Pat White (speed), etc.

Tebow has the size to play TE, but he's still kind of plodding at that position too (think Kevin Boss). He might do well as a FB, but it's a dying breed in the NFL. The only other place I could see him is as a Seneca Wallace type player. He might be okay as a backup/third stringer, but his mechanics and "tangibles" just aren't that good.

However, the guy's work ethic is fantastic and I'd love to see him excel in the NFL (although the media love fest may make me change my mind on that). I could see him doing well with good systems that can take advantage guys who are okay at everything, but aren't necessarily great at anything. In that sense I think NE is a good place for him. I really don't know anywhere else where he'd make sense to go.

Jeremy Conlin said...

Here's my three-sentence take on Tim Tebow:

1. If he gets drafted in the first round, he will be an unequivocal bust and will be out of the league within 4 years.
2. If he gets drafted in the 2nd round, he will be a serviceable NFL starter and might be able to do a fairly decent impression of Vince Young
3. If he gets drafted in the 3rd round or later, he will make 8 consecutive Pro Bowls and go down as one of the better QB's of his generation.

I have no idea why, but I've never been more sure of anything in my entire life. That's how it's going to happen. Also, I'm an idiot. Keep that in mind. Never forget it.

Also, BGF, I can't believe I've never asked you your thoughts on your local NBA team. Do you feel good about the All Of A Sudden Very Frisky Charlotte Bobcats? Do you root for them at all? I've been watching them lately and I've been pretty impressed. They play great defense and The Benevolently Crazy Stephen Jackson has given them that one extra scorer that they really needed. I'd love to hear your take on them.

Bengoodfella said...

Rich, I feel the same way sort of. It's not like Tebow is a great passer or extraordinarily fast. In fact, he is best known for running the ball and running over defenders, which obviously isn't going to work in the NFL. A quarterback can't take that much punishment.

I could seem as a tight end, and what he lacks in certain parts of the typical tight end he could make up for with his strength and work ethic but I still don't know what the position for him is. I think QB may be the position, but the Wildcat is going out of style and I think it will take a team to be patient with Tebow. He's a great guy, I just get tired of the media love he gets.

Jeremy, I can agree with you on that, maybe not to the extent, but in general. I think the 1st round is not a good place to pick Tebow unless he goes to a team that is willing to let him sit for a while. The best thing would be a 3rd round pick where there are expectations but they aren't incredibly high.

I honestly try to ignore the Bobcats. I follow the Celtics a whole lot closer than I ever have followed the Bobcats. Three reasons I don't follow the Bobcats:

1. They aren't my favorite team and I miss the old Charlotte Hornets...and no, I am still not over that.

2. The entire team is affiliated with the UNC Tar Heels and I can't stand them. I can't stand Larry Brown, Michael Jordan, and Raymond Felton. They've tried to build the team as a pro UNC team, at least in my mind and play off the fact UNC is the most popular team in the state.

3. I don't want to see how bad Gerald Henderson Jr. is. He's terrible and never should have left school as early as he did. It saddens me.

I can obviously still give my opinion since I do follow them some. First, Okafor was a safe pick in the beginning that I never liked. He was a great player in college but not a franchise changing player. I know they couldn't get Howard in 2004 but I didn't love the pick because he went to UConn (I hate UConn) and I liked Devin Harris more. I was happy they traded for Tyson Chandler because I liked him much better.

As far as getting rid of my biases and the actual team. Larry Brown is a good coach and he knows the type of players he wants. He has had some success with tough players so that is why Stephen Jackson was a great pickup for them and we all know Gerald Wallace was a decent player. Somehow they managed to get some talent on the team. Honestly, I don't see the success continuing this year. I could be wrong but from what I have watched this is a team that is playing well but I don't know if they are good or are taking advantage of the fact the Eastern Conference is terrible.

I have more thoughts that I will ruminate on, but I follow the Celtics closer and I am not a huge believer in the Bobcats yet.

Go said...

From the pen of PK,
"(Brees and Payton) were orphans of the NFL, in a way, in a place where there were so many orphans of the storm."

This is a ridiculous and unbelievably insensitive statement. He's comparing Brees and Payton to hurrican victims. He needs to be called out for this.

Bengoodfella said...

Peter King should be called out for that, on a much more popular and widely read forum than this blog. He is comparing Brees not getting a guaranteed multi million dollar deal from the Dolphins to victims of Hurricane Katrina. I don't know how this can be made more plain, DREW BREES TURNED DOWN A MULTI MILLION DOLLAR DEAL FROM THE CHARGERS! He turned it down, so he isn't an orphan.

Sean Payton didn't get a job as the head coach of the Packers and that doesn't make him an orphan either. I wish someone more popular would call PK out for saying this.

Go said...

Brees' and Payton' contract situations = thousands dying in a natural disaster leaving many children without parents. What normal human being reasons like this?

I never considered PK a complete moron before this latest column. I figured that to reach the height of journalism he's at, you can't be completely devoid of tact, knowledge, and basic decency such as not making a comment like this. Now I'm baffled at how he has such a premiere writing gig. After what he wrote in this blog I just can't see how any editor can let this remark go. I believe this is up there with what Greenberg said two weeks ago.

And how can an editor let him talk about a losing team for 75% of a column? When you break it down he really lives in his own bubble and has absolutely no pulse on the sports world or the fans. Are there archives of his columns in the 90s? I'm curious as to how he wrote back then.

Bengoodfella said...

Apparently PK would think that when he is trying to write dramatically. I wonder if he will get called out for it in his mailbag today? I bet he did, I just wonder if he ran what people wrote to him.

It seems from his Tweets that something has Peter all riled up and it could be that comment. If he is referring in this Tweets to the same thing we are referring to, it seems like his defense is that he writes a free column. That's weak.

I am starting to believe some of these writers don't actually have editors and they pretty much just write whatever they want and if they have an editor, that person is responsible for making sure the column is on time every week.

2 things his editor should have prevented:

1. That comment about the "orphans" because it is pretty insensitive to the city of New Orleans and what they went through.

2. Writing about the Vikings as much as he did. He barely touched on the Jets-Colts game at all. How can this happen? There were two championship games and most of the column is about the losing team of one of the games and he barely mentions the game.

Kevin said...

One more I forgot to mention:

The two keys to the victory, to me, were Sean Payton (for setting the tone that a coach who models himself after Bill Parcells and Jon Gruden can set) and Drew Brees (for being a good leader and a community leader and a franchise quarterback).

If Drew Brees gives a lot back to the community, does charity work, visits sick kids, that's great stuff. But looking at this sentence Peter gives credit to his community work as a reason they beat the Vikings last Sunday.