Monday, December 12, 2011

2 comments So I Guess Most MLB Teams are Just a Feeder System for the Yankees?

Rosterbation is a very serious crime. The act of creating fake trades between your team and other teams to "improve" your team is an act as old as message boards and the Interwebs. It is also incredibly useless. I tend not to focus on terrible rosterbating too much, but when I see "bold" trades presented that show the rest of the majors as the feeder system for the New York Yankees and a blatant disregard for reality I tend to pay more attention. If you are going to be rosterbaiting, please do safely, and at least try to make sure the trades make sense for each team.

These 10 "bold" trades ideas for the New York Yankees, from a Yankees fan perspective, essentially believe the rest of the majors consists of teams always looking to save money, get rid of promising players because they are unaffordable, and sets up the other MLB teams as a feeder league to the Yankees. To this guy, every MLB team is on a very tight budget and is perfectly willing to trade a good player to the Yankees in return for prospects to rebuild...even when no rebuilding is required. What's even more interesting is in these "bold" trades, not a single trade involves the Yankees trading an established player in return for prospects. Apparently the Yankees do not need young players nor do they need to build their team through the farm system by trading one of their quality young players. The Yankees trading for prospects, that would really be a bold trade wouldn't it?

Let me start out by saying that these trades proposals are very, very bold and probably will not happen.

When he gets criticized in the comments, the author points to this first sentence as his disclaimer from all criticism. It's bullshit. You wrote it, you put it out there. What's the entire purpose of writing a column about fake trades that would never happen and then defending those trades as to why they should happen? There is no purpose to this. So the author actually believes these trades could happen, which is why he explains why tells us exactly why each trade would work. Don't throw some disclaimer in there to pretend you aren't serious.

What's the point of writing an article about fake trades and saying things like, "What if the Red Sox traded Adrian Gonzalez for Felix Hernandez" and then pretending you don't think this would work? Anyone can throw two random teams together and create a fake trade that would never work.

They are just ideas to start conversation about the future of the Yankees, their needs and what trade chips they could possibly use to trade to improve their team.

Two things about this column:

1. The author very nearly uses the same prospects the Yankees would give up for each trade, so it isn't like it too an incredible amount of thought. He just picked a few players on a team, made up some bullshit about why it works for both teams and moved on to the next team.

2. I mainly won't be criticizing the actual trade in terms of value, but will be criticizing how the author didn't even think about why this trade wouldn't work for the team trading the Yankees their players. In the author's mind, the General Managers for other MLB teams will make trades in an effort to save money and they are all brainless idiots who have no idea of how to properly build a team. I will be mostly focusing on why the other team in the trade won't make the trade for the Yankees.

Yes, Jesus Montero projects to be a great player, but that doesn't mean every organization wants to trade established players for him. This is what happens when the Yankees finally produce a great organizational talent. Their fans act as if every team immediately wants to trade established players for this lone plant that has grown in generally non-fertile soil known as the Yankees farm system. Apparently the author believes the Yankees don't care about their farm system and every team should want the privilege of acquiring the Yankees prospects in a trade.

Let's start the slideshow!

Yankees Get:
Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain

Giants Get: Jesus Montero, Manny Banuelos, Dellin Betances, Phil Hughes, Brett Gardner, Eduardo Nunez and Austin Romine

We all know the Giants are incredibly eager to trade both of their young starting pitchers in the very same trade. If the addition of Carlos Beltran this past season didn't tell you the Giants aren't in "win now" mode, then nothing else could, right? Clearly, by adding a pending free agent in Beltran and showing interest in Jose Reyes they were building for the future this very year, which is why it makes sense they would give up their two best pitchers for five prospects, Phil Hughes, and Brett Gardner.

Of course, being Bleacher Report writing, the author doesn't tell us shit about these prospects for the Yankees. Are they in A-ball? AAA? Are they 19 years old or are they 26 years old? What's their rank in the Yankees organization? Doesn't matter I guess. Other teams should just want these players.

I'll do the work for him.

Jesus Montero: Catcher and projected to be a future starter. MLB-ready.

Manny Banuelos, Dellin Betances: Top 2 pitchers in Yankees system. AAA/AA pitchers.

Eduardo Nunez: Top 15 prospect in Yankees system and is a utility guy.

Austin Romine: Top 10 prospect in Yankees system and is good defensive catcher.

So this is a pretty good package for the Giants. Let's see why the Giants would do it.

The Giants were hoping to land Jose Reyes this offseason, but with each passing day it looks as if he will be on his way to Miami. They would also dump about $30 million worth of salaries.

To the author's credit, Reyes did go to Miami.

Let's think about this logic. The Giants were looking to sign the top free agent shortstop to a large contract, but because they can't do that, they will immediately start dumping salary? What?

This would allow the Giants to rebuild by infusing their team with young talent to go with Buster Posey, Brandon Belt, Pablo Sandoval, Melky Cabrera, Ryan Vogelsong, Madison Bumgarner and Brian Wilson.

The Giants would also then not have a very good pitching staff. Let's focus on my biggest question. What the fuck are the Giants going to do with Buster Posey when they trade for Jesus Montero? Montero is a catcher or a designated hitter. He has nearly no experience at first base and life isn't a video game where prospects can just magically move positions with no problems. Fine, the Giants move Posey to first base, but where the hell is Brandon Belt going to play? Is this a world where one of the Giants top prospects doesn't exist? To make matters worse, the author has the Giants trading for TWO highly ranked catching prospects while the Giants currently have Buster Posey on the roster. Not very well thought out.

The Yankees would have to replace Brett Gardner, but that can be done by signing Cuban defector Yoennis Cespedes.

Yeah, just go sign Cespedes. Everyone wants to play for the Yankees!

Rockies Get:
Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances, Phil Hughes, Cito Culver and Brett Gardner

Yankees Get: Troy Tulowitzki

Naturally, the Rockies will want to trade their franchise centerpiece after signing him to a long-term deal. It just makes sense for the Rockies to trade their franchise's most popular player.

Cito Culver: 19 year old shorstop. Played short summer A-ball at Staten Island last year.

The Rockies need to rebuild,

Because the Rockies haven't won the NL West in over a year now. Rebuild immediately!

This would be much more difficult to explain to their fans than the Jiminez trade, but Tulowitzki has a massive nine years and $152.25 million left on his deal.

Which shows the Rockies intended to keep him when they signed him to that contract and don't care how much it cost to keep him. No?

The payroll relief along with the young talent they would get in return would be worth trading Tulowitzki.

Because every team that isn't the New York Yankees wants payroll relief. That's all they want. These teams sign their best players to long-term deals and then immediately want payroll relief from those deals. Is this how the author thinks teams are run outside of New York?

Tulowitzki is only 27 years old and is considered the best shortstop in the majors.

Which is why the Rockies probably won't trade him.

Marlins Get:
Jesus Montero, Manny Banuelos, Dellin Betances, Phil Hughes, Cito Culver and Slade Heathcott

Yankees Get: Josh Johnson and Hanley Ramirez

Slade Heathcott: Top 10 Yankees prospect. Outfielder. Played High A-ball last year.

I don't see Ramirez liking being switched to third. He is known for being lazy, but if Reyes comes to Miami I think that will get worse.

So we know Ramirez doesn't want to play third. This has been to be a factual statement. Good thing the Yankees need a shortstop, right?

Banuelos, Betances and Hughes will more than replace Johnson, and Jesus Montero will be the perfect fit at first base when the Marlins miss out on Albert Pujols.

This must be a world where Gaby Sanchez, a young quality first baseman, doesn't exist. Who really wants to see if these trades work for the team the Yankees are trading their prospects to? It's an honor just be able to give up great players for Yankees' prospects.

This payroll relief will allow the Marlins to go after big name free agents over the next two to three years.

Payroll relief again! A team that has so far made offers to Jose Reyes, Albert Pujols, and Mark Buehrle and signed two of those guys is clearly wanting some payroll relief and to go into their new ballpark with their best players not on the roster. Nothing says, "Welcome to our new ballpark, please continue to spend money to attend games!" like trading the team's best players.

Personally, I think all Josh Johnson needs is a change of scenery and the injuries will die down.

I couldn't stop laughing at this statement. It is the first time I have heard a change of scenery used to explain why a player will stop getting injured. Apparently, New York not only is the greatest city in the world with the greatest baseball team in the world, but a player's mere presence in the city prevents injuries. I guess this is why Carl Pavano signed there.

Hanley Ramirez will play third base and allow Alex Rodriguez to move to DH.

Whoa, whoa...just a couple of lines ago it was said that Hanley Ramirez didn't want to play third base. Now, against all reason he has changed his mind. It's amazing how we can ignore statements previously held as true in order to rosterbate.

I don't think Ramirez will be lazy in New York; the winning atmosphere and the veterans around him will make him work harder.

So in summary, the veteran presence of Jose Reyes will cause Ramirez to not want to play third base and be lazy while in Miami, but the veteran presence of Derek Jeter will cause Ramirez to welcome a move to third base and cure him of his laziness. Oh, and Josh Johnson will finally stop getting injured after he has access to "real" medical care, unlike the voodoo-only medical care found in Florida.

Then the author says the Dodgers can't add payroll and won't re-sign Matt Kemp, so the Yankees should trade for him. In the author's defense, this was a popular opinion until Kemp signed an 8 year $160 million extension. Of course, I would bet the author thinks the Dodgers will now trade Kemp for payroll relief.

Athletics Get:
Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances, Phil Hughes, Eduardo Nunez and Slade Heathcott

Yankees Get: Gio Gonzalez and Trevor Cahill

Why would the A's have traded both of these guys in one trade?

Trading both of them will free up a lot of money and let them move closer to a $50 million payroll while still having a lot of young talent.

Payroll relief of course!

I am going to group Felix Hernandez and Clayton Kershaw together as one trade because they are similar pitchers with teams in similar positions, minus the Frank McCourt fiasco.

Mariners/Dodgers Get: Jesus Montero, Manny Banuelos, Dellin Betances, Brett Gardner, Eduardo Nunez and Phil Hughes (only in the Kershaw trade)

Yankees Get: Felix Hernandez/Clayton Kershaw

The Mariners won't get Phil Hughes in their trade with the Yankees. You lose the right to have Hughes' incredible talent, Mariners. You lose the right to acquire an average starter who is one year from arbitration, Seattle. Your loss!

(I think it is funny Phil Hughes is included in these trades. He's not the highly coveted prospect he was a few years ago. He will be 26 in June and has pitched over 100 innings in a season once)

Both pitchers will be paid heftily next season and in the foreseeable future, so the Mariners/Dodgers will be able to save a lot of money in order to bring in other players.

More payroll relief! I guess Phil Hughes' 2012 arbitration hearing will result in his salary not being raised. It's almost like this column only took 10 minutes to write.

Both teams have weak offenses and a bevy young great pitching prospects, so losing their aces wouldn't hurt that much because they would quickly be replaced while also adding offensive help.

Of course it wouldn't hurt the Mariners/Dodgers to lose their young aces. It is so easy to find elite pitchers. If the Dodgers/Mariners have so many aces in their farm system and can easily replace Hernandez/Kershaw why don't the Yankees just trade for these future aces currently in the minor leagues?

Rays Get:
Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances, Phil Hughes and Dante Bichette, Jr.

Yankees Get: James Shields and Evan Longoria

Another laugher. Didn't the Rays make the playoffs this year? Haven't they made the playoffs three of the last four seasons? So why would they trade their best hitter?

Dante Bichette, Jr.: Short season A-ball at Staten Island. Is a shortstop.

Both Longoria and Shields are locked up for a while for fairly cheap; but could the Rays really pass up a package like this?

Yes, because they are very happy making the playoffs on a consistent basis with an affordable great hitter on their team.

Not only do they get two great young pitchers, but they also get an eventual replacement for Longoria


and one of the best hitting prospects ever.

Jesus Montero is great. Calling him one of the best hitting prospects ever is overstating it just a little bit. He has a ton of potential, but let's simmer down a bit.

Rays GM Andrew Frideman will have a tough time passing this trade up.

No, we won't.

Braves Get:
Jesus Montero, David Phelps and Eduardo Nunez

Yankees Get: Jair Jurrjens, Eric O'Flaherty and Arodys Vizcaino

David Phelps: 25 year old starting pitcher at AAA Scranton.

The Braves don't need more MLB-ready pitching nor do they need a catcher...but why the hell wouldn't they request two positions they don't need in a trade in order to give up a 25 year old pitcher, a great set-up guy, and reliever/starter with a high ceiling? The Braves would probably be so happy to get a trade offer from the Yankees they would be glad to trade a 25 year old pitcher AND a Top 5 prospect (in their organization) for Jesus Montero, a starting pitcher they don't need and a utility infielder.

This trade actually came from a Braves fan I talked to, so I think Atlanta would like it.

That Braves fan is an idiot.

He thinks that if this trade were to go down that Jesus Montero would play first

Which is a position he's never really played, but whoreallygivesafuck? It's not like there is a 22 year old who came in second in the 2011 Rookie of the Year voting already playing that position for Atlanta.

and Freddie Freedman would move to third.

Not sure who "Freddie Freedman" is. But Freddie Freeman has played 5 games at third base in his career...when he was 17 years old in rookie A-ball. It doesn't matter though, right? Life is a video game, so he can just magically switch positions with no problems.

The Braves would also get their shortstop of the future in Eduardo Nunez

Yeah, Nunez is a 24 year old utility infielder with no power and he doesn't get on-base. If that's the future at shortstop, the future sucks. Do not want.

Cardinals Get:
Dellin Betances, Phil Hughes and Eduardo Nunez

Yankees Get: Adam Wainwright

But why would the Cardinals trade Wainwright?

St. Louis could use the $21 million he is owed over the next two seasons to retain Albert Pujols.

Payroll relief!

He is also coming off Tommy John surgery, and at 30 years old, you never know if he will be the same.

Which explains why the Yankees are willing to give up one of their best pitching prospects for Wainwright.

If Wainwright comes back from Tommy John surgery as good as he was before, he would be an excellent addition to the Yankees' rotation. According to, 85 percent of pitchers who get Tommy John surgery fully recover, so I like his chances of coming back and helping the Yankees win in over the next five to six years.

The Cardinals should trade Wainwright because he may never be the same pitcher again, while the Yankees should trade for Wainwright because he has an excellent chance of coming back the same pitcher. I think I got it.

Cubs Get:
A.J. Burnett

Yankees Get: Carlos Zambrano

Of all these proposed trades, this one has the most potential to be something both teams may do. I'm not sure that's saying much. I do have to say, I don't see Theo Epstein taking on Burnett's contract and having to deal with him for two more years in exchange for a pending free agent in Zambrano.

A.J. Burnett isn't the best guy in the locker room either, but he has won a ring and is a better pitcher than Zambrano.

Burnett having won a ring is very much irrelevant. It doesn't give him a winning pedigree or anything like that. Plus, technically Burnett has two World Series rings. I think Zambrano is probably a slightly better pitcher than Burnett at this point, but even if they were equal, Burnett is four years older and has a contract that goes one year longer than Zambrano. I don't see the Cubs pulling the trigger on this deal.

So what we have learned today is a bunch of Major League Baseball teams really, really need payroll relief. These teams are also willing to trade productive, young players to the Yankees for this payroll relief and to begin rebuilding their team, even in the case of teams like the Rays that don't need rebuilding. So this Yankees fan thinks the rest of the majors are essentially a feeder system for the Yankees once players become too expensive. That's good to hear. I think this is a case of overvaluing your own prospects and underestimating that most General Managers aren't as stupid as you think they may be.


rich said...

This would allow the Giants to rebuild by infusing their team with young talent to go with Buster Posey,

You also know what allows the Giants to infuse their team with young talent? Keeping their two 27 year old All-Star pitchers.

Also, fuck Phil Hughes. The guy's arm completely fell off last year and he managed to pitch an incredible 75 innings of 5.5 ERA ball. I'm sure teams would jump at the opportunity to add him to their roster.

Also, also: They just won the WS a season ago... why do they need to rebuild?

Tulowitzki has a massive nine years and $152.25 million left on his deal.

For an average annual hit of... 17M. I'm sure the Rockies will be okay.

The payroll relief along with the young talent

He's 27 years old, how is Tulo not a young talent? Also, again with Phil Hughes?

Banuelos, Betances and Hughes will more than replace Johnson

Two minor leaguers and whatever you want to call Hughes will replace one of the best pitchers in baseball (when healthy)? Right...

Hanley Ramirez will play third base and allow Alex Rodriguez to move to DH.

Or they could move their below average defensive SS to DH and let Ramirez play SS. Oh wait, it's Jeter and he's amazing, so lets move Arod instead.

...losing their aces wouldn't hurt that much because they would quickly be replaced while also adding offensive help.

So Gardner, a utility type minor leaguer and Montero is "adding offensive help"?

The Mariners already have a guy just like Gardner, his name is Ichiro.

Not only do they get two great young pitchers, but they also get an eventual replacement for Longoria

Several problems exist here:

1. The Rays don't need any more pitching.

2. Calling Phil Hughes a "great young pitcher" is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

3. How can the Rays replace Longoria when there aren't any 3B in the trade?

4. The Rays actually do need a SS, so moving Bichette would be stupid anyway.

5. Even if they move Bichette to 3B, he's several years away from the pros and wouldn't be replacing Longoria, he'd be replacing whoever is stuck in there to fill the gaping void at 3B after the trade.

Yankees Get: Jair Jurrjens, Eric O'Flaherty and Arodys Vizcaino

Please Atlanta, make this trade. Jurrjens is a phenomenal young pitcher, so they'd better get more than a bunch of "maybes" in the trade. Perhaps, say Phil Hughes?

He is also coming off Tommy John surgery, and at 30 years old, you never know if he will be the same.

Ya, which is why you traded for Josh Johnson earlier (27 and just had TJ). Oh and I think the Cardinals are well versed with older pitchers getting TJ since Chris Carpenter had the surgery when he was 32.

I'm also sure the Cardinals would jump at the opportunity to trade an ace coming off surgery for a guy whose arm died last year.

The fact that the author thinks any trade can add on Phil Hughes and have teams scrambling to agree to the deal is hysterical though.

Bengoodfella said...

Rich, I think it is funny this guy still think Hughes has too much trade value. Hughes has shown he is inconsistent and I'm not sure if he is even a starter or a reliever. Also, the Yanks don't need to rebuild.


According to this guy, every team needs payroll relief. Even teams like the Rockies who just signed the elite SS to a long-term contract, they need payroll relief from the contract they just signed Tulo to.

Jeter can never move. He'll be at SS even when he can't move laterally (insert joke here) at all. Also, the Mariners want Gardner b/c then they would get to complete a trade with the Yankees. Not only is that an honor to complete a trade with the Yankees, but they would get PAYROLL RELIEF!

I agree with all your points about the Rays. I think it is hilarious the Rays would trade their young 3B in exchange for a young 3B who may eventually one day be as good as the 3B they traded. That would just be brilliant.

Again, I think this guy had a jaded view of the Yankees prospects. Hughes is not a great young pitcher. He is an inconsistent young pitcher and he is also moving closer to arbitration, which we all know the Rays are eager to see him reach. So they would never trade for him even if I assumed they would be dumb enough to trade Longoria. What a terrible idea.

Jurrjens has injury issues, but the odds of them trading Jurrjens, O'Flaherty or Vizcaino aren't very good at this point. The odds of them going in the same trade is less than 0%, if that's possible. I would quit watching baseball if this happened.

The Cardinals need PAYROLL RELIEF! That's why they would trade Wainwright for Hughes and prospects. I like how Wainwright's TJ surgery is too risky for the Cards to deal with, but the Yanks shouldn't be worried at all.