LarryB (if that is his real name) at FireJay has already covered parts of this chat but I wanted to try and tackle the parts that he did not do. Basically, I don't want to cover the same ground he does but I really, really want to do a Bill Simmons chat, so I will. FireJay is like the evil corporation that has more people working for it, better writing, more people prefer it, and they offer just a better overall product, while this blog is a one man shop that is just barely staying a float because of loyal customers (defined as, "they keep forgetting to delete the link and putting it in their recycle bin") and good customer service (this being defined as, "I make mistakes my readers catch"), not to mention at one point J.S. at our blog hinted that Jamie Moyer may be on steroids and even put a tag up about it. That has to be worth something. This comparison really made more sense in my head and has gone downhill quite quickly. My point is that I try to not cover items that are already covered by other blogs that I link to, but I am making an exception for this one.
Alex (Olathe, KS): When your daughter makes the WNBA a legitimate sport, are you going to cover it as objectively as Larry Fitzgerald Sr. is handling the Super Bowl?
Since when has Bill Simmons covered anything objectively? The answer: Never. He would make out his daughter to be the greatest and most wonderful WNBA player since Lisa Leslie and then compare her to Larry Bird and make up a corollary about her.
Anthony (Solon, IA): Disagree about Mo Williams. I've added and dropped him from my fantasy team roster, and finally decided that he isn't worthy of a roster spot on my team. A guy who isn't good enough for my fantasy team isn't good enough for the All-Star game. My wife just added Williams to her fantasy team, which means he will never be on the waiver wire again. And yes, my wife plays fantasy hoops with me. Feel free to be jealous now.
Why would anyone be jealous that this guy's wife plays in his fantasy league? Do you think she tells her friends, "go ahead and be jealous of me that Anthony comes to the Tupperware meetings with me," I seriously doubt it. A woman being in the same fantasy league as her husband is cool...and also borderline controlling if she only does it to monitor his activity. You see a really cool girl and I see a woman who wants to control everything.
Everyone thinks their wife/significant other is cool. If they thought they sucked that person would not be with their significant other, unless they hated themselves or had a air tight pre-nuptial agreement that would cause a massive loss in income should a divorce arise.
Bill Simmons: See, this is why I hate arguing about All Star teams. I couldn't agree more with Kenny Smith - it's EASY to put up good stats on bad teams or mediocre teams.
You mean like Kevin Durant on the Oklahoma City Thunder???? I busted you Bill Simmons! If it is so easy to put up great numbers on a bad team then how the hell is Kevin Durant underrated?
The answer is that he is not and you are not smart. I own you now.
Paul (SF): Should the Red Sox put a clause in Varitek's contract that says he doesn't get paid if he hit less that .150?
Bill Simmons: So I think they appeal to his pride as a man and say, "We'll give you 10 million." But if you aren't hitting .220 at the All Star Break, you HAVE TO RETIRE.
Retire?...but Varitek is so good at handling a pitching staff and they trust him. Why would he retire when he is performing at such a high level? Can anyone else believe the Red Sox gave Varitek $5 million dollars and made him the 7th highest paid catcher in baseball? Look here.
If his name was Frank Griffin he would get a 2 year $3 million deal and back up some young guy coming up from the minors.
Conrad (Phila.): Sorry about the Dooze. As someone who watched his dog get run over by a car, losing a dog before they're supposed to is tough. Now that that's out of the way, you're an idiot -- Manny Ramirez is perfectly rated. He's just a nut case. That's why nobody wants him; nobody doesn't say he isn't like one of the top 10 hitters in baseball EVER . . .
Conrad, I don't like your name, but now that we have that out of the way, thanks for bringing this to Bill's attention.
Bill Simmons: But he's not! He is NOT properly rated! Here is a guy who got on base 24 of 36 times in the 2008 postseason and the fans of teams like Anaheim and Texas and San Fran aren't clamoring for their GM's to sign him.
Really? What about this and this?
It's a smear campaign. How could anyone NOT think this guy would produce for 3 years if you gave him $75 million... in a league that's given AJ Burnett and Barry Zito huge money? I am just flabbergasted by this whole thing. His teams have won everywhere he's gone. Without fail.
There is no question about whether Manny is a great hitter, no one doubts that, the question is whether he is worth $20+ million dollars. Also, his teams winning also have something to do with the other players on the team. It's not like you could throw him on the Texas Rangers and they would be in the World Series. Sometimes its like Bill doesn't even want to pay attention when he potentially could be wrong.
Bill Simmons: Manny got manipulated by his agent. We know that much.
How the hell do we know that much? When I google "Manny manipulated by agent" up comes Bill's column first. We don't know that much simply because Bill Simmons is a first grade homer who has no inside information and lives 3,000 miles away from Boston and he says it is so.
The Sox did neither. They let him twist in the wind. Did he deserve that after giving them 7 HUGE years and helping them win two titles? I say no.
Twisting in the wind? Sort of what the Red Sox did this winter with Varitek and the "take or leave it" contract offer? Of course, Bill doesn't say anything about that and seems to actually agree with the position the Red Sox took with Variteak because it is not a question of treating a baseball player right, it is really a matter of production.
Pflug (Queens, NY): I am totally with you on Manny, I think he's going to absolutely rake wherever he winds up next year (crossing my fingers for the Mets to pony up the cash). If he stays in the NL for a full season, is there a chance of him hitting .400?
Who the hell is arguing that Manny will not rake wherever he goes next year? I want to meet this person that is furthering this myth because I am very tired of someone arguing this point in the "Is Manny overrated" argument.
Zo (Arlington, VA): So, you have started a new Hall of Fame: The Donovan McNabb Comedy Hall of Fame for athletes/entertainers who try to be funny in such an awkward manner that it is actually more creepy than anything. So, you have McNabb and Kobe. I would also throw in Superbowl Week with Kurt Warner as well. Who else joins the club?
(Spitting up bile on keyboard)
I just started a new Hall of Fame: The Bill Simmons' Same Stale Joke Reader Regurgitation Hall of Fame and Zo, you just made it! Congratulations, now go drink Drano and think about what a tool you are.
Tom (Meridian, Idaho): Bill. We haven't heard your thoughts on Jim Rice FINALLY making the Hall of Fame. What's the over/under on the length of his speech? 5 minutes, 10? My bet is he says thanks, then sits down and lets Ricky talk for the next hour.
Bill Simmons: Talked about it on a podcast a little. My thoughts go like this: If he wasn't a HOFer for 14 years, why is he one now?
Bill and I can agree on this together.
Sean (New York, NY): Speaking of books, What's your take on the new Joe Torre book?
Bill Simmons: I just don't think someone like Terry Francona would write a book throwing Sox players under the bus in 5 years. He has more respect for the job than that.
Terry Francona would not write a book throwing Red Sox players under the bus because that is Red Sox management's job. All I hear Bill talk about in regards to Manny Ramirez is how he got smeared by Red Sox management and now no one will sign him. Francona doesn't have to write a book because the front office is able to throw players under the bus just fine without his help.
Chris (Carson City, NV): Hey, has any "rivalry" over the past 10 years been as much of a one-sided beat down as Spurs/Suns? I almost feel bad for Nash and them. Almost.
Bill Simmons: Agreed. It's definitely "feud" and not a "rivalry."
You mean kind of like the Yankees and Red Sox were for almost 90 years before 2004? Yet, the "rivalry" was pumped up constantly by the media. This is not Bill's fault, but I felt the need to point out how much I hate the hype filled media again.
Ryan, Chapel HIll NC: If Kobe wins a ring without Shaq, where does he go down in NBA History? Is he in Bird and Magic's class (top 5-7 in history)?
Bill Simmons: He moves into the top-12. Not sure where. Definitely not higher than 8.
At that point he moves into the top 12. He will never surpass Bird or Magic because they are the best ever, even though it would be pretty impressive if Kobe won a title without another Hall of Fame type player on the team, which is something Magic and Bird never did.
Jamie, Milton, MA: The Bruins need you....
Does this sentence end with, "to stop hopping on the bandwagon, you bag of douche?"
Bill Simmons: I will be there in April. I can't start watching hockey until after March Madness. I am monitoring from afar and couldn't feel more proud for the long suffering fans. The bottom line is that the salary cap has eliminated the franchise's biggest obstacle for the last 30-plus years: The cheap-ass owner. So the B's actually have a shot at winning a Cup.
Bill can't cheer for a team unless the owner is able to spend more money than God to acquire players for the team. What's the point if you are only cheering for a team that can't outspend everyone, and the salary cap finally evened the playing field and now Bill is able to hop back on the bandwagon. This is one of the worst examples I have heard of a writer jumping off a bandwagon and then publicly jumping right back on the bandwagon. Basically this is like if I started cheering for the New Orleans Hornets.
Lino Viola (Boston, MA): Who wins in a seven game series- Last years Celtics or the '86 Celtics?
Do you know who loses on this question? The public when Bill creates an entire column around this premise. It is coming, just hold on and wait for it.
Daniel (Heidelberg, Germany): You've written before about the impact you believe the performers at halftime of the Super Bowl have had on the game. In light of that, which songs do you think Bruce is going to perform at the game, and which team will potentially benefit from those songs?
Bill Simmons: let's say the Cards are up 14-10 at halftime, the question would be, what would be the best Bruce song at halftime to make their fans believe that the impossible was about to happen (ala "Beautiful Day" for the 2001 Pats). For some reason I feel like it woulkd be "Badlands." It's a happy/energetic song but at the same time, the Cards franchise has really been the "Badlands." if he breaks that one out and Zona is in the game, I am banging Zona for the second half.
You have to be stupid or Bill Simmons to think the halftime music really makes a difference. Were the Giants pumped last year by hearing Tom Petty sing "Running Down a Dream" at halftime? Probably not, because they were so focused on the actual football game that was going to be played in 20 minutes. It is insane to think the fans can make a big difference in the outcome of the game. It is also ridiculous to think the music makes a difference. The fans may actually think something good will happen based on the music, but the fans have no bearing on the players and how they play in a football game, I saw that first hand earlier this January.
Brock (Idaho Falls, Id): So Pujols is lobbying to have the Cardinals offer Manny a contract. Now this is a long shot, no scratch that, a looooooooooong shot, but would that be the greatest 3-4 hitter combo in history?
Bill Simmons: If that is true, God help the National League. I do wonder though how these mid-market teams (like STL or Det) aren't going to get just murdered by the recession with their ticket sales this season.
I am not sure if Bill has heard, or he has his head too far up his ass, but the St. Louis Cardinals have a wonderful fan base that always support their team and show up for games religiously. I know the Red Sox have such a WONDERFUL fan base that is unique in that they are able to constantly acquire new fans through winning, but for baseball knowledge and loyalty to their team, I would put the Cardinals near the top. I don't think St. Louis is going to struggle too much. More on this in a few months, but Detroit could rebound this year, which means they would be a good team and may actually get fans to the stadium.
Bill posted a semi-decent pseudo hindsight 20/20 diary of the Super Bowl. It was not that bad but there were parts that annoyed me.
I spent most of my night talking to friends and having inane conversations such as when my friend Ace and I tried to figure out if there was a sports equivalent to Sondra Locke's career.
I am just amazed Bill has loser-ish friends that debate this type stuff with him. Does anyone have a friend named Ace who does not have a ponytail? Every Ace I can think of either had long hair or a ponytail.
9:03 -- Warner to Boldin for a first down. Madden attributes Warner's recent resurgence to the fact that he's playing with gloves and he's 22 pounds lighter than he once was.
I don't like it when quarterbacks play with gloves on their hands. It annoys me for some reason. Maybe it was the David Carr experiment. I still have nightmares of him and his long hair and white gloves dodging defensive tackles while he crouches in the pocket begging someone to just sack him.
9:19 -- Warner to Urban for 17 … and the Cards finally go no-huddle. That took only three quarters. (I mean, wasn't this the ideal no-huddle scenario? Safeties playing deep, veteran QB capable of calling his own plays, four-receiver shotgun --
I too thought the Cardinals should have done this much earlier, like the start of the game. Are w sure Todd Haley is a good offensive coordinator, that he is not actually bad? Are we really, really sure about this?
9:33 -- Well, MacGruber changed his name to "Pepsuber" and did a Super Bowl ad for Pepsi with the real MacGyver. And I enjoyed it. I continue to hate myself.
I am surprised to see Bill did not mention that Richard Dean Anderson, the real MacGyver, is overweight now and then make jokes about him using food to break out of situations. I am surprised but not necessarily sad he did not include this.
9:57 -- Here's where the ginormous Holmes play happens: Nice catch on an in route, quick pivot, defender falls, suddenly he's sprinting down the sideline and Al Michaels is going Gus Johnson on us. He's tackled at the Zona 7 … followed by Pittsburgh calling its last timeout. (Terrible. With 52 seconds left, why not hustle everyone down and run some clock off? You don't want to score too fast, right? So many bad coaching calls in this game.)
That's definitely what you want to do when there is less than a minute left in the Super Bowl and your team is down 3 points and inside the 10 yard line, rush a play at the line of scrimmage where Roethlisberger could throw an interception or the ball could be snapped poorly because everyone is in a hurry. By the time the entire offensive line is down the field and everyone is set at the offensive line, there will be about 30 seconds left in the game, maximum. Then you get to hurry up and get a play off.
I am not sure at this point, leaving too much time on the clock is not a top priority for the Steelers since they do have the #1 defense in football. A timeout here allows the clock to stop and gives the Steelers a chance to plan a couple shots into the end zone. Do Steelers fans really want Roethlisberger at the line of scrimmage yelling out a play with the game clock running down? I don't think so.
because the NFL is officially as unpredictable as March Madness and that's just the way it is.
It's not March Madness, it is the NCAA Tournament, and stop talking about it because you literally know nothing about college basketball. Also, last year all #1 seeds made it to the Final Four, so the only thing that was not predictable was that all the best teams would make it to the Final Four. I don't know if the NFL is quite in the class of unpredictability the NCAA Tournament has.
I can't wait for college basketball to start. I think Bill Simmons is going to fall in love with a young man in college basketball and then serve as his personal PR rep for his entire NBA career. I can't figure out who it will be though. Maybe he will throw a change up on everyone and choose an "older" young man, Blake Griffin. I really thought it was going to be Jrue Holiday, B.J. Mullens, or DeMar Derozan, but I could be wrong. We'll all stay tuned to see which bandwagon Bill chooses to jump on.
22 comments:
I couldn't figure out why he keeps calling it March Madness either. Seemed weird.
The Steelers totally made the correct call with that time out I thought. The play went like 40 yards, so by the time the O-line gets down there, they need a breather, seriously. They have the time outs, take them, since they do want to set up some plays, not rush, not have to spike the ball and use a down stupidly. The only time they should let the clock run down is if they are kicking the 4th down field goal. Nobody knew they were going to score on the second play, and by calling time out, they still have the opportunity to use a running play, as unlikely as that might have been.
I have a feeling that the Arizona offensive coordinator is overated the same way the Billick was with teh Vikings, and anybody else is who has a good QB and some great wideouts. "Larry run a fade route. Kurt, throw it high." Yeah, that's a tough job.
I am sure I have called it March Madness at some point also but it still drives me crazy. I feel like that is a name someone who does not follow college basketball would call it. That sounds so high and mighty of me, but it is true.
It doesn't really matter because they won but I don't see the advantage in running down the field and wasting time when you have a timeout left over. I expected Pittsburgh to run the ball to be honest with you. I thought they were going to run on first down, then have a play called for second down so they don't waste time. I saw the spread formation and could just see Willie Parker or Melwelde Moore busting up the middle. You could run the ball twice if need be, if you have 53 seconds left over, not that I would recommend it, but still...
I have nothing against Todd Haley, but he seems like a little bit of a hot head and his play calling really doesn't impress me all that much to be honest. I will be interested to see how he does if/when he gets a head coaching job. Not only that, but the offense seemed to do better when he just let Kurt Warner sling the ball around the field. I have to say I would have more respect for him if he went no huddle in the first half, that would have taken away the Steelers ability to get set up on defense a little better than what they did.
I did gain a lot of respect for Ben Roethlisberger, though he holds the ball way too long, he still is able to run around that pocket and make plays happen. It's crazy at times to watch him.
At the time, I thought the PIT TO was a mistake. I thought AZ would spend one, to be honest. After Martin's point about running it down prior to FG attempt, I understand the strategy. Thanks Martin. BGF is sending your Cheez Its pronto.
Why does Bill (and everyone) ignore that an already signed, guaranteed contract is NOT going to motivate Manny? There is no carrot, so to speak. It's signed. He's getting paid whether he plays well or not. How is that difficult to understand.
Simmons is bad but he's creating a culture of badness. The emailers (I believe they ALL exist) suck. Who cares what the halftime act does and who cares what Simmons thinks they're going to do?
Yeah Martin, those Cheez-Its are in the mail, so go ahead and just start looking for them now. I can see how a timeout may not initially make sense but I think it was the right move. I think the Steelers had to set something up rather than hurry a play.
I am with you on the Manny thing. There are those (Simmons) that keep thinking it is a performance issue and it is not, it is an issue that Manny flaked on the Red Sox and few teams are going to have the money to spend and the motivation to sign a player who is going to cost that much money.
I am also with you on Simmons creating a culture of badness. There is a group of people 18-25 who take their gambling tips from him and believe nonsense like a song can help the fans believe their team is in the game and that somehow translates to the field in some fashion. I think it is a culture of bullshit. These people write in with Pantheon faces and corollaries that Bill needs to include, and it is quite tedious to me. Whatever he is selling, they are buying, and they should not be. He truly doesn't know what he is talking about a lot of time. Especially when he manages to connect two unrelated events like if a team likes to play games with each other and if they win a championship. Plenty of teams have had great chemistry and never won anything. I can go on and on about this type thing...
The Simmons fanbois are like that person at the Big Game get together who talks the talk, and everybody is listening, and you're going "WTF??" After the third piece of pseudo logical sounding thing out of their mouth you have to start busting their chops or your head will explode. Like the guy at the World Series getogether we had who was saying that an "imbalanced schedule" meant that the teams hadn't played the same amount of games.....
ummmmm, Cheez Its
Brock (Idaho Falls, Id): So Pujols is lobbying to have the Cardinals offer Manny a contract. Now this is a long shot, no scratch that, a looooooooooong shot, but would that be the greatest 3-4 hitter combo in history?
Certainly. Certainly the best 3-4 combo in history. I certainly can't think of a 3-4 combo that's better. Certainly I can't think of a 3-4 combo that defined 3-4 combos by way of having THE best hitter of all-time in the 3 spot and another top 10 hitter of all time in the 4 spot. Certainly Pujols (a top 20 hitter of all time) and Manny (a top 20 hitter of all time) would be a better 3-4 than Ruth-Gehrig. Certainly
"These are my readers!!!"
NO! Pujols and the most underrated hitter of all time, Manny Ramirez would certainly be the best 3-4 combo ever. Unless you count the past 80 years of baseball. Ruth-Gehrig, Aaron-Matthews (I am being a homer and don't care), Maris-Mantle (though it was short), and one of my favorites (I read it in a Rob Neyer column a while back) a 3-4-5 of Mickey Cochrane, Al Simmons, and Jimmie Foxx. I am going to go ahead and say Jimmie Foxx is one of the best hitters ever that no one talks about. If I were drunk and arguing I would probably try to put him in my top 5 hitters of all time.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/foxxji01.shtml
But hey...Pujols/Ramirez are good too.
You make a wonderful point that I did not bring up. There is just so much crap that can be talked about in a Bill Simmons chat. I wish I had brought that point up because I could have talked about that for a while.
First time posting, but I read this blog all the time…thought I would share some thoughts.
I like how Bill talks about what he does at a SB party, like basically he ignored the whole game it seems. What do you think he would have done if the Pats were in the SB instead of two teams he clearly doesn’t care for? You think he doesn’t pay close attention to every single call, play, formation, etc? He’d have told his “friends” (which I think is just him talking to himself cuz there is no way anyone would have those conversations) to shut up and watch the game. Any real fan of football goes to a SB party to watch the game, not talk stupidly to their friends. Seriously, if his teams aren’t playing in a championship game it’s like he completely zones it out…and he is suppose to be the “sports guy”?
As far as best 3-4 hitters, couldn’t you make the case the stupid reader sent in for just about any make believe combo? First it was talked about the Yankees might sign him, wouldn’t that make A-Rod/Manny combo the best ever? What if Bonds still played and he joined SF…how about if Joe DiMaggio played for the Red Sox instead of NY and he and Ted Williams were hitting 3-4? Of all the questions he could have taken, why this completely irrelevant one? This isn’t really debatable, Ruth-Gehrig, not even close.
We all know the perfect fit for Manny, it’s the Yankees. They could sign him to a 3 year deal. Yes the problem is with Manny that he probably will quit on the team eventually, and that’s why no one is signing him (if anyone thinks otherwise, like Bill, then they are complete idiots). But you couldn’t tell me that Manny wouldn’t go all out in every single game the Yankees played against Boston. They are the one team that could pick up the slack when he decides to not try very hard, and still count on him to go all out when they play there most meaningful games against their rivals. Just my thoughts on it, though I know he will never sign with them. Of course, I never thought Tex would sign with them either.
Oh and as far as Detroit and what they are going to do when the supposedly will lose money, take a look at last year’s attendance. 3.2 million came to see that crappy team play. Compare it to the league average. If you don’t live in a city, maybe you shouldn’t comment on when people will show up to support a team. As long as the Tigers compete the fans will show up to see them play. And if you didn’t realize Bill, the owner of the team has plenty of other cash flow then just his baseball team. He may lose money on the Tigers (though I doubt he does) but he gains plenty in his other holdings (you know, the Red Wings, Pizza, Casino, etc).
Anyway, love the blog!!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it is always good to hear from new blood. One of my main problems with Bill Simmons is that he does pay zero attention to any other sports team/event that does not include his favorite teams. Of course you know that he talks about the Boston area teams all the time, but he was originally called the Boston Sports Guy, then ESPN got a hold of him and just made him The Sports Guy, dropping the "Boston," though the columns stayed almost the same. There is no way he does anything if the Patriots are in the Super Bowl, matter of fact, he would probably be at the Super Bowl.
I don't know exactly what Brock from Idaho was trying to ask but for Bill to completely ignore Gehrig/Ruthis beyond having a bias against the Yankees and delves into ignorance. Gehrig/Ruth are it and always will be it in my mind until another duo steps up and plays together for a long enough time and puts up the type of numbers Gehrig/Ruth did.
I thought it made sense last year for the Yankees to sign Bonds, so I also think it makes sense for the Yankees to do so with Manny. There are really no problems with this because Yankees have a surplus of outfielders so Manny would DH all the time, which is perfect. The Yankees have the pitching and signing Manny would pretty much make the lineup unstoppable. The funny part is that I know a couple of Yankee fans and they hate Manny and would never want him on their team. Whether that would change or not, we may never know, but they hate him.
If you read this blog at any point in the past couple months, I thought Tex was heading to Boston. I am still surprised.
Seriously, I think one of the most egregious things Bill spoke about in that chat was his comments about Detroit and St. Louis. Those are two teams that have great fan bases, I am more familiar with St. Louis just because my favorite team plays their much more often. His comments almost came off like he was some big shot who was looking down on "the little guy" wondering how they were going to make it since the fans would obviously not show up for their team. Nothing could be further from the truth. I may do a baseball preview of some type but I already have in my mind the Tigers as a team to watch in the Central. I don't want to commit to it, but they still have pitching and they still have guys who can hit the ball. The fans in St. Louis and Detroit are going to be there no matter what. Those fans are as rabid as any fan bases in the country. He really needs to start thinking before he starts typing.
Thanks for reading and commenting. I appreciate it.
If you had 2001 Bonds and 2001 A-Rod you MIGHT have a comparable 3-4.
Maybe. But that never happened, so Iowa boy is a bumfart
I think that dude was from Idaho, which makes him a potato loving bumfart.
Also, A-Rod 2001 and Bonds 2001 would make a pretty good 3-4 duo. That entire Yankees lineup back in the day (1927) was insane. I am not a Yankees fan but I have a huge respect for the history of the game.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1927.shtml
Babe Ruth OPS: 1.258
Lou Gehrig OPS: 1.239
Bill needs to look at numbers before opening his mouth.
Well being from the Detroit area, I can comment more about the fans here. Contrary to the whole Hockeytown thing, Detroit is and always will be a baseball town. When the team is competing at a high level, fans will show up no matter what (averaged 39,000 last year, for a LAST PLACE team). Fun fact that the “sports guy” might not know, that was more than the Red Sox (a playoff team). And I’m well aware that the capacity is different, but that’s not really the point.
The Tigers will be good if Verlander turns back into what he was 2 years ago. I think last year showed him he can’t just go out and think he is going to win, he actually needs to try. He reminds me of Weever when he was in Detroit. I think if Bondermen comes back and stays healthy, they will have a good enough top part of their rotation to win a lot of games. I still think they should have signed Sheets, I mean he can’t be any worse than whoever they choose as their 5th starter even if he only has half his arm. They made some bad decisions last year and are now paying for them, but I think they still have enough to turn it around. Though I hate the signing of our new SS and C, but there was nothing else out there.
Oh and if Gehrig and Ruth would have been on steroids as well we wouldn’t even have to mention A-Rod and Bonds.
AJ, you are from Detroit, that's great, I like to have voices from all over the United States. I have never been to Detroit but I have never really thought of it as a hockey town. I guess I am more familiar with the basketball and baseball teams. The capacities are different but Detroit does seem to always draw a crowd to their baseball games and I don't think this year will be any different really. I think someone should have signed Ben Sheets...seriously, if he gives you 20 starts, at least you know they will be 20 great starts. I don't see why know one has made him a good enough offer yet.
I have nothing against Detroit but I am not completely sure what they were thinking when they traded for Renteria last year. I had seen Jurrgens pitch in 2007 and thought he looked pretty good and then they threw in Hernandez as well. Jair pitched a ton of innings last year (compared to how many he is used to pitching) so I fully expect his arm to fall off this year. I think Detroit is going to be fine this year though, and contrary to Simmons' belief the fans will show up.
I can't imagine what Ruth and Gehrig would have done if they had today's access to training equipment AND they were juicing. They may have hit 150 HRs between them.
Renteria was a bust, that was for sure, and everyone knows it too. Even our GM said he blew that one. I was never fond of him to begin with, and his stats to me were always a little inflated when he played in the NL.
We gave up some good young pitchers, but I think at the time the thought was we have lots of good young pitchers and getting rid of some isn't that big of a deal. Clearly they didn't realize Willis was washed up and couldn't hit the strikezone in a little league game, and that Robertson was a lefty that threw 88 mph with no change up and not a very good curve. But we do have good pitchers still, Verlander, Armondo, and Bondermen...along with one of the best pithcers in the minors in Porcello. But they gave up to much, that is for sure.
Though I live in LA, I've always been a Tigers honk since Trammel and Whitaker. After the Dodgers and Angels, the Tigers and the Cards for some reason have always been the next two teams I'd root for if mine were eliminated. I think Detroit, and AJ can corect me, is much like LA in that the Red Wings and the Lakers are popular, and have been much more successful lately, but everything even, it's a Tigers/Dodgers town. We have a huge Latino population, and while some are boxing fans, and others are football or basketball, ALL of them are baseball fans. All that aside...
I think Detroit is all about it's pitching staff. Verlander and the bullpen weren't very good last year, and it killed them. The rest of the staff was mediocre, but teams need their ace to be good to great, and with Verlander pitching like a #4 or 5 starter, they were screwed. Their offense will pretty much showup I think. (though why they didn't sign Orlando Cabrera instead of Adam Everett beats me)
They, the Dodgers, the Cards, someone needs to step up and give Sheets one of those Chris Carpenter type deals the Cards did a few years ago, like 2 years, and tell him to just take the till June this year getting healthy and his stuff together. The guy is a stud when he's healthy, so take a chance, he might be just what they need to put them over the top in their divisions. (I just don't have faith in teh Cubs and their rotation after Zambrano and Harden)
As for an overlooked 3-4 combo, how about Griffey and A-rod? They were pretty good, as well as Mays and McCovey. Nobody touches Ruth and Gehrig though.
Well they didn't sign Cabrera for one simple reason, they didn't want to pay him 8-10 million a year for a decent player. They paid Everett 1 million, he is much cheaper, plays better defense, and hits alright. Same type of player, less money. Cabrera is by far a better overall player, but he isnt worth the money he wants, which is why he hasn't signed yet. They figured they had enough bats in the lineup that they could get away with a weak hitting SS that plays good defense. And I think they are right, since they dont need a long term solution there when they have a good prospect in the minors for SS.
And yes, Detroit is a baseball city, though hockey gets all the attention since they win a ton. But when the Tigers went to the WS a few years ago the buzz around south east michigan was bigger then any of the Wings cups.
I completely understand the reasoning behind the Renteria trade because he was a great hitter for the Braves in the couple of seasons he was there. I was just a little amazed at what they gave up for him. I don't think it was a dumb trade or anything because there would not have been that much room for Jurrjens in the Tiger's rotation, but I was amazed at how much Renteria fell off there. Of course he did the same thing in Boston.
I am aware of the pitchers the Tigers have and I have not gotten to see Porcello play yet, but his numbers look good. I would not have gone after Cabrera either to be honest, he is not worth the money that he wanted. Everett is going to be a good fielding SS and with Cale Iorg on his way up, he is just a stop gap as it is.
I agree with Martin on the fact the Tigers hope this year ride on that pitching staff. Specifically Justin Verlander. If he pitches like he is able to pitch and Dontrelle Willis figures out how to pitch again, the Tigers are going to win the Central. The hitting will be there, that's not the question.
I would have liked to see Griffey and A-Rod play together more to put them in a great 3-4 hitter class. I feel like they both peaked during different periods. You guys are both lucky you can argue over which "town" Detroit and LA are. It is college basketball all the time here and then the Panthers tend to get a lot of attention as well. I sometimes forget Charlotte has a basketball team.
Holy heck, I had no idea Cabrera was hoping for that kind of money. He sure isn't that good. Everett is a very good defensive shortstop, but often looks overmatched at the plate. The Tigers should be strong enough to carry him along, though Cabrera would have been perfect for them, but not at 6 million more.
I know, I think Cabrera has lost his freaking mind. Dude must be on something to start asking for money like that. Have you seen his numbers from last year? I think Everett was a good call. The Braves have a similar situation right now where they are not trying to overpay for a LF and are going to go with a platoon in LF that will cost $2 million but gives them flexibility with salaries. In that Detroit offense, they don't need Cabrera.
Wow, you know about Cale Iorg? Not many people that don't follow the Tigers minor leagues knows about him. I had a chance last summer to go see the Tigers single A team in Tampa play (we took a trip to Orlando and decided to make the trip to Tampa for a game). He looks like he will be a very good defensive player, just needs to work on his hitting a little, though I was impressed by his at bats that day. He should be the starting SS next season, hopefully.
Yeah, I know Cale Iorg. I have not seen him play quite yet but I hope to do so soon. I am not a sports snob but as part of my goal of knowing about sports, I try to know about every team and just not my favorite team.
It doesn't always work but I know him because his dad played for the Blue Jays and some jackasses on a Braves comment board I visit wanted to take him off the Tiger's hands. I am embarrassed for them to even mention the trade that person wanted to offer the Tigers for Iorg. That was assuming the Braves traded Escobar/Kelly Johnson to the Padres for Jake Peavy. I think he played here in Greensboro against our single A team this summer, but I did not make that game. I would much rather have a young SS that can play defense and has to work on offense rather than the other way around, especially with the Tigers offense. Next year, at worst, you have a younger Adam Everett.
Funny thing about reading this website now, and i read it at the time but its been so long im going through all of it again bc its so good, is that Francona DID right a book throwing players under the bus 3 years later lol. Also i know the site is dead but i hold out hope you'll comeback one of these days. But this archive being here is fantastic
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