Tuesday, June 2, 2009

13 comments 3 Journalistic Tidbits I Need To Correct

If I were Peter King I would call them morsels of tidbits or servings of tidbits. Either way you get the point, it would be food related. Each of these three articles are not necessarily bad or wrong on their own, but they each contain comments that I (surprisingly or not) take some issue with.

-Jay Mariotti starts us off with a discussion on Derrick Rose. If there is ever a person who is not likely to be able to lead a discussion on cheating and having great ethics and values, it's Jay Mariotti. The same guy who re-wrote an entire column in March about conference tournaments that changed the entire premise of the column and he never acknowledged it and tried to play off like he had not changed anything. The same Jay Mariotti who constantly has a little note at the beginning of his columns that says,

Editor's Note: The following is an updated version of Monday's original column.

In Jay's case "updated" usually means "was corrected due to an incorrect fact or false premise the author originally included in the column." This is not the guy we want discussing how dirty college basketball is. Yes, this column has also been "updated."

It's much more important that he address this: A gifted player from the president's home base of Chicago,

This fact has nothing to do with anything related to Derrick Rose or this situation. Chicago was also the home base of Al Capone...this still means nothing.

just voted the NBA's Rookie of the Year, is accused by the NCAA of knowingly allowing an imposter to take his SAT test so he could gain admission to the University of Memphis, where he spent all of one season leading the Tigers to within a few seconds of a 2008 national championship.

Just to play devil's advocate here, but Rose would not have had to take the SAT or pay an imposter to take the SAT if the NBA allowed him to go straight there after high school. I am not for allowing players to go straight to the NBA after high school for purely selfish reasons, but this would never have happened if the NBA did not require him to go to college.

Also, I would like to know who the dumbass that checked the Rose imposter in at the SAT was? Did he/she not know what Rose looked like? I thought he was a legend in Chicago? I feel like someone would have seen it wasn't him. I took the SAT in the same building as Jerry Stackhouse and Jeff McInnis (both went to UNC) and trust me, everyone knew they were in the building. No one could see it wasn't Derrick Rose?

The fallout is wicked in multiple directions. It impacts our perception of Rose, whose potential Hall of Fame career now is marred by the indelible smudge of academic fraud.

Hold on just a second there partner. I like Derrick Rose's potential as much as the next guy, but let's not go overboard quite yet and say he may have "a potential Hall of Fame" career. Give it two more years. Also, in those two more years, no one will remember anything about this incident or anything of the like. It will be forgotten. People tend to have very short memories when it comes to academic fraud...it's not very sexy.

It makes me wonder why Kentucky, a program scarred by scandal in the past, was so quick to hire Calipari while claiming to have known about the probe and apparently sneaking it past some of the school's trustees.

They want to win and they weren't winning, so they hired a coach who will put asses in the seats and trophies in the trophy case.

And how many high schools are participating in altering the grades of athletes?

If I conclude "altering" includes helping them get good grades using a type of help other students don't receive, but not counting tutoring, and including the type of help Derrick Rose received?...75%? Is that too low?

Rose needs to come out of hiding and say something, anything. The longer he stays quiet -- the story broke four days ago -- the more guilty he is in the eyes of the public. If he was innocent, wouldn't he be voicing outrage about the allegations?

Yes Jay, if Rose was innocent he probably would be voicing some sort of outrage over the allegations...if he was innocent he would do this, but he hasn't. Maybe there is a reason he has not expressed outrage.

(Bengoodfella waiting for Jay to get it...)

Contrary to what the Rose camp seems to believe, this story is not going away like that speeding episode last year, when Derrick was ticketed for going 106 mph in a 65 zone on Interstate 88 and all of Chicago immediately forgave him.

They covered up a speeding ticket that Rose got? When will the outrage and cover-ups end?! If the Rose family is also covering up several parking tickets, he should be thrown in jail immediately. Chicago should never have forgiven him for speeding. So many traffic violations, so many cover-ups...

Not only might Memphis lose its runner-up finish, it could face sanctions that reduces its new coach, Josh Pastner, to a newer and perhaps more hapless version of Tom Crean, the Indiana coach who is rebuilding a ravaged program after the scandals under predecessor Kelvin Sampson. What's pathetic in Pastner's case is that he wasn't made aware of the full depth of the probe until after he was hired.

Pastner is a more hapless version of Tom Crean because he coaches at Memphis, which is in Conference USA and he coaches a team that is nobody now in a conference that is full of nobodies, while Crean's team is in the Big 10. Basically Pastner will be fired in three years, while Crean will have a great chance at rebuilding the Indiana program.

So, who exactly did Barnhart interview about a coach to whom Kentucky is paying more than $31 million over eight years? The family gardener?

Yes, they did. That's exactly who they interviewed. He reported that Calipari prefers perennials and tends to want his flowers mulched during the winter, regardless of how little sense it makes.

And why did at least two members of the UK Board of Trustees not know about the investigation until the other day?

Why do I have to answer all these pretty obvious questions? Because those were probably the two members of the UK Board of Trustees that were not in favor of hiring Calipari and wanted to hire John Pelphrey, Travis Ford or someone else who had some affiliation to the University of Kentucky.

accomplishing that in the form of John Wall, the nation's top prep point guard; center DeMarcus Cousins, who was to have joined him at Memphis; 6-10 center Daniel Orton; small forward Jon Hood; junior-college transfer Daniel Dodson and a second star point guard, Eric Bledsoe. Patrick Patterson, the talented big man, decided to eschew the NBA Draft to return. If Jodie Meeks does the same -- he of the 54-point game at Tennessee -- Calipari has the makings of a Final Four team.

Kentucky is going to be loaded. I think a certain college team located in North Carolina that wears dark blue uniforms at times and has a coach who's last name begins with a "K" needs to make a completely illegal phone call to Eric Bledsoe and convince him to come play PG for that certain team located in Durham. Illegal, yes, but they need a point guard badly and winning is everything.

I am kidding, I would never want that to happen. I was serious about the winning is everything thing though.

School is wrapping up, summer is ahead, and it's no news flash that the world is crooked. Why would anyone care, you ask, if Derrick Rose had an imposter take an SAT test?

I'll tell you why: Because it reeks of flagrant dishonesty, athletic privilege and academic fraud. And one of these days -- or years or decades -- it has to stop.

There is a better chance of Jay Mariotti actually coming within 10 feet of Ozzie Guillen than this type stuff ever stopping.

-Bill Simmons writes a David Ortiz eulogy. It's a typical Bill Simmons joint, full of hyperbole and stories of the wonderful things Ortiz has done.

In the academy award-winning classic Cocktail, Coughlin tells young Flanagan, "Everything ends badly, otherwise it wouldn't end." It's the single greatest yearbook quote ever. Hell, it may be the greatest movie quote ever.

I am not even sure that is an original quote and am pretty sure that was said at some point prior to the movie. That being said, if I listed the top 1,000 quotes in movie history, this may make the list...maybe. So greatest ever? Probably not.

Remember in Superman II when Clark Kent gave up his superpowers so he could be with Lois Lane -- lesson No. 184 on how women ruin everything -- and then a bully beat the crap out of the suddenly mortal superhero in a diner? That's been Big Papi since Opening Day.

Remember when human beings could say what they meant or felt without using a pop culture analogy? That's not Bill Simmons, ever.

The steroid whispers started quickly. By late April, every conversation I had with a Sox fan seemed to include a "We need to mail Papi some HGH" joke. It was an easy leap for a couple of reasons: First, his power numbers leapt like Obama's Q rating from 2003 to 2007. Second, he's Dominican, and more than a few of his brethren -- Sammy Sosa, Miguel Tejada, Guillermo Mota -- have been in the center of PED controversies.

I am not saying that Big Papi is now or ever was on steroids. I am not saying that is why he is slumping this year. I don't have an idea of why he has dropped off so quickly and that is what is so puzzling. I will however dispute some of Bill's ideas. Also, if Ortiz was ever going to start using steroids, now would be a good time to start. The BoSox and my fantasy team could certainly use him.

We braced for Ortiz to be linked to a bombshell headline that began with the words "Former Sox Clubhouse Attendant … " But one thing nagged at me: He wasn't belting bombs that were dying at the warning track like so many other former 'roiders.

I don't even know how this is any type of proof of anything. If you ever need hyperbolic evidence, call Bill Simmons, he can give it to you. I have no idea what the trend is for the ball to do when an ex-steroider hits it, but I know the trend is not that the ex-steroider hits a proliferation of baseballs that go 385 feet instead of 410 feet. Every baseball player has hit a few balls that almost went out of the park but did not, that is neither proof of steroid use nor proof of no steroid use. It's proof the ball hit was not a home run.

I would not use this as proof that Ortiz was not a former 'roider. How about the fact he has never been linked or caught with them? That sounds better.

It reminded me of watching Jim Rice fall apart in the late '80s, when he lost bat speed overnight the way you and I lose a BlackBerry.

That's not even a great comparison. Rice did not fall off this quickly. He did not fall off this badly at the age of 36 in his last year and his decline seemed to be much more gradual than Ortiz's.

Ortizn also had a better run in the 2000's than Rice ever had, I just found that interesting. Rice was more consistent than Ortiz. (I look at Rice's numbers and can't help but wonder if he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame)

Look at the numbers:



This is an epic fall off. I can't think of another hitter that has fallen off so quickly and in such a dramatic fashion.

By mid-May, I was pondering another theory: Maybe Papi was older than he claimed. In Seth Mnookin's book Feeding the Monster, he recounts the story of how Boston nearly blew the chance to acquire Ortiz because they were concerned that he was much older than the media guide said.

Ah yes, the "Maybe my son is not using drugs, but all of his friends are" theory. It avoids any type of acceptance of a potential problem (like the departure of Manny), while still giving a possible reason for Ortiz's decline that is not Ortiz's fault and doesn't reflect poorly on him.

How many Latin players have been exposed for lying about their ages in the past few years? Hell, one of Papi's best friends -- Tejada -- was found to have cut two years off his birth certificate when he was 17, er, 19 … you get the point.

Yep. What else did one of Papi's best friends, Tejada, also lie about and get caught doing? Here's a hint, it begins with steroids. I find it interesting that Bill is willing to accept that Ortiz lied about his age like other Latin players, but is not willing to accept Ortiz lied about using steroids like other Latin players, and he bases this belief purely on the fact the balls he hits are not dying at the warning track.

Watching Papi flounder now, I'd believe he's really 36 or 37 (not 33) before I'd believe PEDs are responsible.

Of course he would. That's natural. Unfortunately there is no proof either way, but certainly no proof Ortiz lied about his age, while hardly any circumstantial proof of steroid use. All I know is that it could also be both. Yes, since Tejada lied about his age and steroids, Big Papi could do both as well.

Let's be honest, Ortiz did not always look to be in the best shape. I did not affectionately (or maybe not) call him Big Fatty for nothing. Maybe he's kind of hit his baseball wall. I don't have any good explanation really.

Some players hit their peaks at different ages. Jeff Failcouer hit his at age 22.

The fans are suffering just like he is. Only when he left 12 men on base against Anaheim on May 14 did I receive a slew of angry e-mails from back home, but even those tirades centered more around Terry Francona's steadfast refusal to drop Ortiz in the order.

That's actually anger directed at Ortiz because they would not have to drop him in the batting order if he did not suck. So yes, BoSox fans were indirectly mad at Francona for not dropping him in the order, but were really deflecting anger at Ortiz onto the manager.

Really, that's a tribute to what he means to his fans and how delightful it was to watch him play. His career might be over (notice I left the door open; I'm such a sap), but Ortiz has reached the highest level an athlete can reach: unequivocal devotion. Sox fans love him the same way you love an ailing family member. In the end, at his bleakest point, he's brought out the best of an entire fan base. He has inspired dignity and emotion and loyalty. The fans could have sped his demise (and saved a few games) by booing until Francona benched him. They didn't. How often does that happen?

As always, you Red Sox fans are the best. The world would give up without your constant loyalty to your players. You give me a reason to go on in my life. (Ok, I am done...sorry I had to do a little bit of that)

Barring a miraculous return of bat speed, he'll be benched or released soon. It'll hurt, and I'm going to feel bad.

At some point I am going to release him off my fantasy team. I still refuse to do it, and there he is sitting on the bench ranked around #1200 offensively and can only play the Utility position and I still have him there waiting for a big break out game.

-On his Twitter, Peter King responded to the question, "What is your fondest memory from the past 20 years, the one that you will tell your grandkids about with a big smile on," with this answer:

Hmmmm. Fondest memory of last 20 years ... Probably spending a week inside the Packers, seeing everything. that was fun. '95.

He is obsessed Brett Favre. It's actually not really funny and bordering on pathetic. He asks for more abuse about Favre than he actually gets. He asks for and deserves more.

Peter King finally put his MMQB-Tuesday up.

As you read this, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith might still be assessing the damage in his Washington office after what can best be described as a bizarre fire in the bathroom adjacent to his office around 5 a.m.

I knew Lisa "Left-Eye" Lopes faked her death. This is further proof. (Anyone get it?)

One: Jack Donlan is not dead. That's a pretty big mistake, and I've apologized to Donlan, the longtime Management Council czar with the league, for killing him in the column.

I have no excuses for the screwup; it's just one of those things that happens when you don't check all your facts, and it's a good warning to me.

By the way, Jack Donlan, you are dead to Peter King. Just thought you may want to know about this.

Talk about not checking your facts. He wrote someone was dead who was alive. Maybe 20 years at SI was one month too long for Peter.

From Eric Batchelor of Acton, Mass.: "Hope you are still enjoying Boston! Last season Tom Brady didn't even play in the preseason; considering he's coming off knee surgery, do you expect him to play in a few games this year or do you think the Pats will sideline him until game one of the regular season and have him only participate in practice?''

This is an absolutely urgent question that must be answered immediately. Will Tom Brady play a couple series in an absolutely meaningless games that few diehard fans of the Patriots care about? Peter answers this question and ignores many other great questions, like mine. That irritates me.

I can tell you what Brady told me: He wants to play in the preseason, and he wants to play in the preseason badly.

Great, glad we know the answer to that. All Patriots fans can now breathe a sigh of relief knowing Brady will be playing in meaningless games. I can't tell you how happy I am that question got answered. Well, I can actually...1.2%.

Peter also defends Matt Millen as being a good announcer in this column. I remember Millen being a decent announcer, but I also remember him being an NFL official for one game, so my memory may be a little fuzzy. I really do remember him being an NFL official for a game or a half, something like that, before he got the idea of murdering the Detroit Lions team and fan base.

From Rich Eisen of Culver City, Calif. (and NFL Network): "Rumor has it SI will celebrate PKing's 20-year anny by making him the cover model on swimsuit issue.''

No comment. But my agent has been in negotiations with the Omar The Tentmaker Swimwear Group. That's the only statement I am free to make at this time.

As if his random shoutouts to people who we don't care about weren't enough, now Peter is relaying jokes he is making on his Twitter. More football, less bullshit please.

Michael K. of Jacksonville: "Great write-up on Austin Wood. In an age when pitch counts have major league managers pulling pitchers out of games when they are cruising and mowing down opposing hitters, this kid's performance is a rare thing. Are any MLB teams giving him a look?''

Michael K from Jacksonville, I agree that managers are too tender with their pitcher's arms, but his career high for pitches thrown was somewhere below 40 and he threw 169 pitches. That's like if Peter's record for running was one mile and he decided was going to go out and run four miles. Then he had to run again in two days. Remember this guy is a closer, not a starter. There is also an economic term called declining returns and that pertains to pitchers, which is why they tend to get pulled when they may look like they are cruising. I am not defending the babying of pitcher's but at a certain point a pitcher will quit dominating and a manager has to decide when that point will occur.

I would like to see Austin Wood throw 100 more pitches two-five days later and see what happens. I bet he will get lit up.

John Trent of Reno: "After reading your column today marking your 20 years with SI, it got me thinking about you and your writing career. What has always struck me about your writing is how you've never lost your sense of wonder, and your enjoyment of what you do (rarely, if ever, have you penned columns bemoaning the difficult travel, the 24/7 nature of reporting in the electronic age, or dealing with millionaire athletes who can be, as Al Michaels would say, "truculent" from time to time).


John, does not read Peter's column. Peter complains about everything and criticizes restaurants performance serving food and pretty much anything else he doesn't like.

Last year, I was at a minor-league baseball game in Kannapolis, N.C., and sitting there on a hot summer night, I thought how great it was that my job allows me to go to places I'd almost certainly never go to, even places most people think, "Why'd you want to go there?'' Because it's there.

I am shocked he did not bitch about something at the game as well. Peter's sense of wonder often comes from complete and utter ignorance at the world. Many times people who have a childlike wonder have that wonder because they spend most of their time being so self involved they don't have a chance to notice that Drew Brees is good or that coffee can be better at a local chain.


Martin said...

Ya know, the thing I remember about most of the roiders isn't that they suddenly started hitting warning track power balls, but that they suddenly couldn't play. The tip off on a roider to me was a couple great seasons, and then jsut brutal, bizaar, and somethimes damn near career ending injuries. This was usually accompanied by the complete inability to hit the ball. I give you Big Mac, Brett Boone, Nomar, Gagne. The guys who just kept playing fine on a steady track from year to year were the roiders who were hard to pick out. Luis Gonzalez, Rafael Palmiero, these types were much harder to look at and go "Ok roider". Gonzo got hurt by the fact his "breakout" year was so damn Brady Anderson like that it did give cause to be suspiscious, but the years after that weren't "roider" years as people think of them. Bill makes a blanket statement, and for the life of me, I can't think of ANY roider who fits is description of becoming a power hitter, then becoming a warning track hitter, except for guys who totally lost it....just....like...Ortiz.

As for Rose getting someone to take the test for him. when I took it, it was at a local high school with literally 1,000 other kids. I didn't attend that school, but a lot of the people "checking" id's did. I can totally see Rose and a friend "switching" id's , as it's pretty easy to fake an id nowadays for something as simple as a SAT test. I get completely legit id's at work all the time that are fake, and until we run them under the holographic scanner, can't tell. So while people might know Rose is in the building taking the test, they might not be able to identify him, as he takes the test as "Freddy Coleman" and his buddy Fred takes it as "Derrick Rose".

Sweet freaking cripes. Peking wrote that someone was DEAD? This guy couldn't fact check with a gun to his head. I'm suppossed to rely on a guy who reports live people DEAD for accurate football info? Hell no ghostrider.

The Casey said...

What I don't get is why a candle was burning in his office bathroom, at 5 am, when he wasn't even in town?! Was this one of those huge 100-hour candles that he had left burning all weekend or something? Does his administrative assistant have stress-relief candles already burning for him before he gets to work? Has somebody looked into this?

Martin, don't forget Ken Caminiti. He was just terrible his last few years. As a matter of fact, his career arc looks kind like someone else's.

CaminitiOrtizI didn't realize that until I looked at it. But we all know that Big Papi would never do anything to betray his trust with Boston fans, right?

Fred Trigger said...


KentAllard said...

I got the Left Eye joke. I thought I was sick after reading John Trent's verbal blowjob of Peter King, but the unequivocal devotion paragraph pushed me into new levels of infirmity.

I always thought Jim Rice was at least marginally a Hall of Famer. But he was a surly guy who didn't like reporters, they didn't like him back, and now they are getting their revenge.

Bengoodfella said...

I also count guys like Marcus Giles, who went from a great 2B for a couple seasons to not getting any major league deals at all. I, of course, think the "warning track power" thing is completely hyperbolic and probably doesn't pertain here. I don't know if Ortiz was on the juice or not, I think it is an unfortunate combination of not having Manny hitting near him, getting older and just struggling at the plate. I have never seen a player fall off like this though.

The thing about the Derrick Rose situation is that it is a no-lose proposition for him. Why not cheat and get into college? He will only be there one year and by then he will be in the NBA. He doesn't really care about the school all that much. I can see how everyone would get confused about Rose taking it under someone else's name. I would be shocked if Calipari did not know about this though.

I think it is great that he reported someone was dead. Great research job. Though I have to say, I did have a week stretch last year where I was all over the place with my facts and people were correcting me. If I did not know better, I would just assume he had a bad day, but that's not true.

Casey, I was in such a rush to get this out, after waiting two hours for Peter's column I did not even think why the hell a candle would be going at 5am. Maybe there were occupants drinking and they forgot to put the candles out? I don't know, but I think the league owners are trying to murder Smith.

Caminiti was horrible his last couple of years. I remember when he tried to play 1B, it was brutal.

Contrary to Fred's taunts of "haters" I really don't know if Ortiz was on steroids. Though his numbers are close to Caminiti, I don't want to implicate him quite yet. Though I saw Jim Rice's numbers again, (I just looked them up) and I still am not 100% sure about him being in the HoF. This has bothered me for a while because he was so borderline.

Ortiz was never do anything to betray the trust of the Boston fans and really why would he go to great lengths to prove he belonged on a team that has sort of dumped it's most popular players in recent years? (Manny, Nomar, Pedro)

Fred Trigger said...

I think since Rice is in the hall of fame then they have to put in Albert Belle (who had a way more dominant stretch), Dick Allen, and Dale Murphy. Not to mention Dave Parker who was the left handed Jim Rice, and had the badass nickname "The Cobra"

Bengoodfella said...

Kent, that guy John loves himself some Peter King. Unfortunately what he wrote is absolutely, unequivocally not true about Peter, but that is ok.

You may be right about Jim Rice having revenge gotten on him by reporters for being surly to them. Reporters don't like it when players are surly to them and I guess he is an example of that.

I am a Hall of Fame snob, so I don't know if Rice or anyone else Fred listed should be in the Hall of Fame, I have serious questions about Smoltz, Schilling, Vizquel, Chipper Jones and several others like that. I think some of those guys should get in but I don't consider them locks like other people may.

The problem with Albert Belle is that he was caught cheating with a corked bat and he probably was on steroids. I don't see him getting in.

Martin said...

I totally agree with Fred, in that Jim Rice was basicly elected on the "most feared hitter" idea that was pushed like hell the last two yers. I'm not sure if any hitter was more feared then Dick Allen, dude was great hitter AND he was nuts. Dale Murphy has to be in if Rice is in I think too. I've always thought it was crap that the arguments against Murph were always in the offensive arena. He was a very good CF with a great arm, yet that gets lost by the wayside. Rice was a butcher pretty much in left field, though he was decent in Fenway till his last couple years say his supporters. too often everyday players seem to be evaluated as if they were all DH's assigned to positions, and their actual ability to play defense is ignored.

Marcus Giles, there ya go. His brother keeps hitting, just with no power. Marcus had at least a real decline, over a few years, not jsut cliff diving.

Martin said...

Oh, and if you get a couple things wrong, it's because you have a life, this isn't your job, you don't work for a company with fact checkers, have an editor, and don't get paid 6 figure income to do this. Trust me Ben, if you had all those things, I think you'd never declare a live guy dead, much less have a bad week of minor errors.

King's job is like a #11-12 guy in the NBA. If any of us had it, we'd be in great shape, upbeat, work hard, and enjoy the money rolling in. Seriously, pretty much every commenter here has a tougher job then ol' Peking. he jsut happened to be in the right place at the right time, and once, 20 years ago, might have been good or innovative. Now? not so much.

Bengoodfella said...

I personally don't like Murphy should be in the Hall of Fame and I had a goldfish named after him. See, I am HoF snob. Murphy was a good CF, and the reason he played CF was because his arm was so good at catcher he kept throwing the ball in CF when trying to hit 2B, so they moved him to CF. Dick Allen was a great hitter and I haven't looked up his numbers but from what I remember about him, he is in that Dave Parker-Jim Rice type group.

I would bet $100 Marcus Giles used steroids. He had that big swing, but he fell off the map too quickly for me. He had injuries and could no longer hit for power either.

I remember that week and I think I may have declared a few people dead that week that weren't dead. That was the week I decided the NLDS was 7 games long and not 5 games long. I appreciate the faith in me though.

I don't know if I would want Peter's exact job because it involves too much travel for me, but I know what you are saying about being like the #11-#12 man on an NBA team. His MMQB can be informative at times, but he really weighs it down with his Brett Favre mentions and the other crap he puts in there.

Jeremy Conlin said...

I never like Simmons' mag columns to begin with, so I don't have too much to say other than I'm 99% sure Ortiz was on steroids, but it had never even occurred to me that Ortiz may have just lied about his age all along. That at least made me go "huh, that's not a bad argument."

Let me address the Jim Rice/Hall of Fame issue. The Hall of Fame is a complete waste of everyone's time. In order to get in, you only have to be better than the worst guy in there, which makes no sense whatsoever. I address all HOF debates with two (and only two) criteria.

First, the Fear Of God test. Did the player in question ever put the Fear Of God into the fans/players/coaches of the other team? For Jim Rice, the answer is an unequivocal yes. As people here have noted, he was one of, if not the most feared hitter in the American League in the late 70s and early 80s. This is where guys like Ellis Burks and Andres Galarraga fall off. All three of those guys have similar numbers (although they played in separate eras, whatever), but I can tell you definitively that Galarraga and Burks never had me shaking in my boots.

My second test is The Grandkid Test. Will I sit my grandson on my lap 50 years from now and tell them about non-local player X? My dad has about 170,000 Jim Rice stories, but he grew up in Boston, so I'm not sure if that counts. Would a guy from Chicago tell his kid Jim Rice stories, the way I would tell my kid Junior Griffey or Derek Jeter stories? I'm not sure. I would think so, therefore Jim Rice belongs in the HOF.

Obviously, if a player reaches a historic milestone, they get mad props, but if they fail both of these tests, they probably don't belong in the hall of fame. For instance, Jamie Moyer should NOT be a HOFer. Great, you played until you were 50 and won 250 games. But I guarantee you nobody on Earth has ever uttered the sentence "Jamie Moyer is in town, let's get tickets!" Same with Cal Ripken. I'm not convinced he belongs in the HOF (but that's also because I think he's an arrogant ass, but that's a story for another time).

Obviously, the system has flaws. By my calculations, David Ortiz belongs in the HOF, which in 2009 now seems laughable. At the same time, there guys like Rafael Palmeiro, who doesn't really pass either test (at least for me), but probably belong in the HOF.

I know, it's not perfect. But that's the way I vote, and according to me, Jim Rice belongs in the HOF.

AJ said...

Ya I'm not 100% sure Ortiz used steroids. I mean its not like his best buds Manny and Tajada were caught using them, or his trainer is a known steroids pusher, or that the height of his numbers happened to be the height of the steroid era, or etc etc etc.

Let me just throw this out there (HRs per AB):

1997 - 51
1998 - 36
1999 - he only played 10 games
2000 - 47
2001 - 19 (here comes a pattern)
2002 - 23
2003 - 14
2004 - 14
2005 - 13
2006 - 10
2007 - 16
2008 - 18
2009 - 178

I don't know, maybe he just somehow found his power stroke at the exact same time as steroids started becoming the norm and that it went away at the exact same time as testing came out. It could happen, I mean its not like he just blow up in size once he got to Boston or anything...oh wait, nevermind.

I'll never understand the point of calling out a player once they leave college. Rose, just like Reggie Bush, will have to suffer no consequences for his actions, yet the schools they leave behind do. I find it funny that these kids are so stupid that they can't even take a simple test by themselves. And another thing, why don't these kids that are stupid and can't get into a normal college just go play ball in Europe for a year and then enter the draft? This way they get paid to play, don't have to worry about school, don't have to cheat to make it one year, and are free to enter the draft with no baggage attached. Is this not allowed? I'm not really sure if they can go play there or not, but I don't see why they couldn't.

Bengoodfella said...

Yeah, I never really thought that maybe Ortiz had lied about his age. It is an interesting idea, but I think that is just as viable an idea as Ortiz using some sort of PED's.

I hate that you have to be better than the worst guy in the HoF as well because there are some guys in there that I would have never placed in there, but now those guys are a gold standard for others who want to get in.

Everyone has their own test they use for players to get in the HoF. I guess part of the reason I am a hard nut to crack is I have no test. I remember watching Dale Murphy play and I am sure I would tell my grandkids a little bit about it, but really his numbers just don't seem good enough for me. I don't have a problem with Jim Rice being in the Hall of Fame but I am just afraid since we live in a society that has incredibly low standards for most things, we will lower our standards for this as well.

I can't believe I am a holdout on Ortiz using steroids. It is hard to ignore those numbers that AJ put up, but I think maybe he just found his hitting stroke, but that just sounds so naive. If everyone keeps beating me down and giving me proof I am just being naive, I may change my mind at some point.

This Derrick Rose type stuff is just a racket. Those who are getting punished for the violations are not the ones who committed the violations. The head coach is in charge of the program, he should be at fault for something and have to pay with some type of sanctions. You obviously can't do anything to Derrick Rose, which is the beautiful part of it for him. He cheats and by the time the NCAA catches on, he is in the NBA. There were also reports that Robert Dozier had suspicious SAT scores and that is why Georgia declined Admission to him.

Those guys can go to Europe if they want to, the only problem is that they had better make sure they don't struggle over there or else it may change the NBA's opinion of them. I can see more HS seniors playing overseas and then entering the draft here. Brandon Jennings did it and I can see it happening again. You get more exposure here but you get paid over there.