Monday, June 1, 2009

29 comments MMQB Review: Peter Remembers When He Didn't Have To Work So Hard

It's Monday, which means we get Peter King's MMQB. We had better enjoy/dread it for the next couple of weeks because Peter will be taking a vacation soon and not writing his weekly MMQB. I will miss him during that time span, though I know we are going to get tons of stories of coffee related adventures and in-depth stories on conversations he had with people who we don't know. It's like talking to your grandparents all day about their friends, except worse, because at least your grandparents don't talk about Brett Favre all the time.


I have nothing new to report on those column favorites, Brett Favre and Mike Vick.

Thank you for reporting that you have nothing new to report on Brett Favre and Mike Vick. Apparently Peter works for ESPN now. Except he doesn't interrupt the regular scheduled program for a SportsCenter minute to tell us breaking news that there is no breaking news.

Give Drew Brees his props.

Anyone who reads this blog on a regular basis knows it irritates me when sportswriters insist on pointing out great players or achievements by players that fans already know about, but the writer just assumes that because he/she doesn't pay attention to the player, then no one else knows about the player/achievement either. It pisses me off. Peter is assuming we all ignore Drew Brees' achievement like he tends to do.

No, you give Drew Brees props. I have given him props. I am not the one who put the Saints as the 24th best team in the league based solely on the reasoning Jeremy Shockey may not be healthy for all 16 games next year. Brees made Lance Moore a receiving threat, played a few games last year without his #1 receiver (or what seemed like ANY good receivers) and his team had a mediocre defense and he still almost broke Dan Marino's NFL passing yardage record and led the team to an 8-8 record. He was the team last year at times. Everyone who follows football understands this. Please don't tell everyone to give Drew Brees props because we are not the ones that are ignoring his achievements and acting as if Jeremy Shockey is the only receiving threat on that New Orleans team. I have given Brees props throughout his career, probably too many props. I told everyone who would listen I would take Brees over Vick in 2001 when they were in the draft together and also said I would trade Phillip Rivers and keep Brees if I were the Chargers. Not that those were correct decisions for the Chargers to make, but it seems as if Peter is one of the few not giving Brees props.

Go ahead and annoy me Peter with the information you have.

In the 89-year history of the National Football League, only one player has thrown for more yards in a three-year period than Brees has thrown for in his last three years. This is Drew Brees we're talking about, not any of the very famous quarterbacks I'm going to show you in this chart.

I don't need this information, I put Brees very high in the rankings of quarterbacks in the NFL. #2 in fact.

I know there are tons of people out there who think a lot of Brees, I just hate it when Peter King acts as if he telling everyone new information about Brees. We know he is good, I am glad he just noticed.

"It's just numbers,'' Brees said when I told him about this gaudy list on Friday. "It's not a very big deal. To be mentioned in the same breath with Marino, Elway and all those guys is a great honor. Wow. But in the grand scheme of things, we don't have the ring. One of the reasons nobody would know about those numbers is, look at our record. [The Saints are 25-23 in that period.]

I want to know how Peter presents these type of lists to players? Does he call them up and say, "Hey Drew, Peter King here. Did you know you are second over the last 3 years in passing yardage? Give me your response to that!"

If so, I think that would annoy me if I were a pro football player.

It's beginning to look a lot like Stafford

Wow, he is doing a story on the Detroit Lions. They are not even close to the East Coast. Color me surprised.

"We've got two criteria for when Matthew will play,'' said Schwartz. "One is he'll play when he's ready. The second is when he's the best quarterback for us. But so far, whatever the opposite of buyers' remorse is, that's what we have.

The opposite of buyer's remorse is immediately wishing that you had bought something that you did not purchase. I don't know what that means for the Lions this upcoming year, but at least Matt Millen is not involved with the team anymore. I can't wait for Stafford to be a better quarterback than Mark Sanchez. It's not because I don't like the Jets, I just don't think Sanchez was a 1st round quarterback and such a to-do was made of his arriving in New York.

One was about a 2009 inductee, Randall McDaniel, a former teammate of Zimmerman's...He should have been a first-ballot guy. Which Zimmerman, who played with McDaniel in Minnesota, did. And then he said: "He's not only the strongest man I've ever seen. But he used to challenge defensive backs to races for $100, and they wouldn't take him up on it. If they did, he would have smoked them all.

I realize Randall McDaniel was a great player and may deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but the fact he was strong and could run really fast is not two great criteria that should help put him in there. Mike Mamula would make the HoF based on that criteria.

He was a phenomenal football player.''

More importantly, he was strong and could run fast though. Way more importantly, what the hell were the Vikings doing with defensive backs that could lose a foot race to a Guard? I think reflects much more poorly on the defensive backs than it reflects well on McDaniel.

Happy Anniversary to me.

(The sound of Peter tooting his own horn begins)

But the current cover, the June 1, 2009 edition of the mag with Tom Brady on the front and my story inside, is one I'll keep.

Because it has like 3 super sexy pictures of Tom Brady's chiseled face?

Because that date --today -- is my 20th anniversary at the magazine.

Congratulations. I would buy Peter a cake, but I have a feeling he may have one or five in the fridge already.

I think back to when I was hired, and I remember thinking what a plum job this was.

Oh, and Peter, it still is a plum job. Don't ever forget that. There are thousands of journalism majors who would hold your sweet little (maybe not little) daughters hostage for your job.

Mulvoy told me I'd be responsible for some NFL stories in the offseason, and maybe a story or two in other sports, but I'd be able to enjoy the offseason. In the first couple of years, I bet I had 10 weeks in the offseason when I didn't have an assignment, including vacation. What a life! No TV, a little radio, no internet, no cell phones.

Holy crap! If Peter had known he would have had to work all year long, he would have taken that job at the landfill instead. If anyone ever wonders why these old time journalists are always on television bitter, angry, and hate blogs, this is why. Many journalists used to not work 10 weeks of the year, at least the football journalists did not. They could ignore news that was occurring because no one else had access to the news, but now they have to work harder because information is readily available. Damn Internet! I would be pissed off too if my well paid 40 weeks a year job became a full time job. No one went to journalism school to get a full time job.

I wrote my "Inside the NFL'' column for the magazine each week during the season, and maybe six or eight times each offseason.

That still sounds about right. I know Jim Trotter and other columnists write this every week for SI now, along with Peter. I am not even sure if Peter does 6 or 8 in an offseason any more.

That's how this mayhem began. I started out as a sportswriter. Now I'm a sportswriter who does the NBC "Football Night in America'' show, a radio gig (Sirius NFL Radio) one or two mornings a week, a few other talk shows around the country, and multiple columns for

Impressed with ourselves much?

The other day, Mike Florio of made a great point about the difference between Mike Vick coverage during his possible return to football in 2009 and the coverage of Leonard Little's return to football in 1999. Little got 90 days in jail for vehicular manslaughter while being more than two times over the legal limit for alcohol, and he was suspended by the NFL for eight games. Florio's point was that if that happened today, the court in Missouri would have gotten ripped to shreds for a relatively light sentence (it also included 1,000 hours of community service and four years' probation),

Uh oh, here's my soapbox. This is absolutely true. I would have personally ripped that court to shreds on this blog and 10 people would have read it. The effect would have been thundering.

Whatever happened to those four years probation? Didn't Little get picked up for DUI again? I guess you can still plead down from DUI and it won't affect your probation...which I, of course, think is stupid.

I think in some ways we beat horses 'til they're long past dead today. In some cases, the pressure to be first causes those of us in the news business to react too quickly. The Boston Herald's false Spygate report comes to mind. That concerns me.

(Coughing) Brett Favre and anything related to him is another good example. (It was a long cough)

"I think he has been a great flamboyant quarterback, but he has made more stupid plays than any great quarterback I have ever seen.''
--Tarkenton, lobbing another bomb toward southern Mississippi.

The ironic part about Tarkenton't quotes is that he was not ever a saint himself in Minnesota. If I am not wrong I think this quote from Wikipedia describes someone very well. Guess who it is...

He was also known to heave the ball deep on third and long with no regard to an interception. He stated this was due to the great defense they had.

Whose Wikipedia page is this? Tarkenton's. Sounds to me as if though I agree with Tarkenton's assessment, he may be the old man calling the veteran out for the same things he did.

Now Peter writes a page long story on Austin Wood who pitched 12 1/3 innings of no-hit baseball, which is a wonderful feat. Not necessarily deserving of 25% of the space in a Monday football column, but still exciting and wonderful. He replaced the starter in the 7th inning and then threw 169 pitches. Yes, this guy is the closer for Texas and he pitched 169 pitches...and no Dusty Baker was not the manager of the Longhorns team.

Again, I am not a big fan of pitch counts but I think this guy needed to be taken out at some point.

Wood started cramping severely around the 15th.

It's not like the bullpen was tired or anything, this guy replaced the starter in the game. There were other pitchers available.

Before he went out for the 17th, Wood adjourned to the locker room and threw up violently because he'd been drinking too much too fast.

"Did you think you'd be too sick to go back out?'' I asked.

"Oh, I wasn't coming out of that game,'' he said.

I understand he doesn't want to come out of the game and all......but he is vomiting and cramping. It may be time to get someone warmed up.

That was Wood's 163rd pitch. Usually he'd throw between 10 and 30 in an outing. Never, ever in his high school or college career had he gone this far in a game, thrown this many pitches.

Doesn't this sound slightly irresponsible to anyone else on the Texas coaching staff's part?

Wood said, "but I couldn't believe how good I felt. My arm felt great. I wasn't sick, even though I threw up. But my body felt great, my arm felt great.''

Yes, because everyone knows after a good hard workout you immediately become sore. He should know the pain is going to come a few days later, if there is any pain. I wonder how he felt 2 days later?

Factoid of the Week That May Interest Only Me

When Brett Favre has thrown this spring to high school receivers near his Sumrall, Miss., home, one of the wideouts has been a 6-foot-1, 195-pound Division I prospect with Ole Miss, Mississippi State and Louisville chasing him. Pretty good pedigree too. The wide receiver in question: Steve McNair Jr., the son the former MVP quarterback.

I thought Peter had no Brett Favre news? He just had to mention something about Favre or else he would go through withdrawal. This man is obsessed with Brett Favre.

1. I think these are my three opinions about Anquan Boldin likely changing his agent from firebrand Drew Rosenhaus to the less-confrontational Creative Artists Agency, with Tom Condon and Ben Dogra:

c. Absolute gut feeling: Boldin stays in Arizona and gets a new deal done, quietly, around Halloween. Kurt Warner rejoices.

This is why Peter gets paid the big bucks...for his gut feelings. So Boldin fires the agent that was playing hard ball with the Cardinals, the one who was looking into trades, and was ignoring the fact Boldin wanted to stay with the Cards...and Peter thinks this may mean Boldin wants to stay in Arizona. Gosh, what gives you that impression Peter, other than common sense of course?

Usually when a team fires its head coach, it means it wants to change the direction of the franchise, so in a similar situation Boldin wanted to change the direction of the negotiations, so he fired Rosenhaus. Maybe I am being a smart ass but it seems to me like he is wanting to stay in Arizona and will. I did not have to dig too deep to come to this conclusion.

5. I think I wouldn't be bothered so much by the news of Eric Mangini sending his rookie class on a 10-hour bus ride to Hartford to work at his weekend football camp for underprivileged kids -- if he and his coaches hadn't flown there.

This is the same Eric Mangini that Peter believes will give Joshua Cribbs a new contract halfway through his current contract. He's like Bill Parcells, except moderately incompetent.

Peter is probably just pissed off that Mangini did not donate anything to Dr. Z's foundation and yet he had time to help out underprivileged children. I don't think Mangini understands. Dr. Z can't talk and we need to get him back to where he can talk and interact again. Fuck little underprivileged children. If Mangini has time to get a plane to help underprivileged children, he certainly had time to help a foundation whose sole purpose was to help an 76 year old man get expensive therapy to overcome a stroke, while ignoring all other stroke victims.

I think that is why Peter is really mad.

The bottom line, though, is a coach shouldn't enlist people who he barely knows to go work a camp for him, even if the camp is a tremendous idea, which it is.

Peter probably thinks a better camp idea would be a camp entirely funded for one underprivileged child that he knows well and ignoring the other underprivileged children in the country.

7. I think I have nothing new to report on your favorite newsmakers, Brett Favre and Michael Vick.

Yes, this is the second time that Peter has stated he has no information on either of these players. We get it.

b. You tell me the World Baseball Classic isn't kryptonite for Daisuke Matsuzaka. Since winning the WBC MVP, Matsuzaka has started four games for the Red Sox. Innings: 16.1. Hits: 29. Walks: 10. That's 2.4 baserunners per inning.

d. So Jason Varitek hit a ball into the right-center-field upper deck, about six rows from the top of the Metrodome, on Thursday. One of the longest balls I've ever seen hit. And the Twins came out and said it was a 427-foot homer. I said on Twitter, if it is, then I'm Bud Selig. So I get this link back from a homer-run-measuring site, Hit Tracker (yes, there is really a home-run measuring site, from the looks of it), with the real-deal measurement of 452 feet. I trust the math in here far more than I trust the Metrodome's measurers. Check it out:

f. Nothing personal, Rance. But Rance Mulliniks' middle name should be "Statingtheobvious.'' Mulliniks also informed the New England audience Sunday that Nick Green, one of the offending shortstops, was a "young rookie.'' This is Green's fifth year getting big-league at-bats, with his fifth team. NESN might want to make it mandatory that the analysts it has subbing for the ailing Jerry Remy actually have heard of the players in the starting lineup.

Anyone looking for a Red Sox update? Fred or Ivn? If so, here you go.

e. Saturday was the third time in two weeks that a shaky play or error by the shortstop played a huge role in a Red Sox loss. Either Jed Lowrie is going to be ready in about 10 minutes, or they'd better trade a real prospect for Omar Vizquel.

Yes, trade a "real prospect" for this guy. It doesn't matter that Vizquel is not currently available, if the Red Sox demand him, Peter thinks the Rangers have to give him up. I would like to know what a "real prospect" can be defined as.

c. Mariano Rivera is not only the greatest relief pitcher of all time, but also one of the 10 best pitchers of all time. What an amazing specimen and competitor.

Really? I have a lot of respect for closers but I don't know if I can go this far. I would like to pretend that I can and Rivera is a great closer, but top 10 best pitchers of all time? I don't know how I feel about closers in regard to putting even the best one in that category. It feels a bit much for me.

i. You go, Daniel Schlereth. The son of ESPN's Mark Schlereth, the former Bronco and 'Skin guard, made his major-league debut as a lefty reliever for Arizona Friday night in Phoenix, getting the Braves out 1-2-3 (Brian McCann, Garret Anderson, Casey Kotchman) Friday night with a very nervous dad in attendance, then followed it up with a second shutout inning Sunday.

You get zero credit for getting out Anderson and the next shutout inning was Failcouer, Jordan Schafer, and a pinch hitter. I could get at least three of those guys out. I just don't want this kid to get too full of himself. Many people have gotten those three guys out this year.

I am going to send another question to Peter this week. I just have to think about it. I am determined to have him answer my question, and I want him to get an attitude with me. I will probably fail again.


KentAllard said...

If McDaniel really was faster than any defensive back, why didn't his coaches realize he would have made a great safety? The size of a guard and the speed of a corner. He'd have been Superman. Also, Mcdaniel was no more invisible than any other Hall of Fame offensive lineman. Those who followed the entire league knew who he was.

He made the remark that no fan has ever cared about Drew Rosenhaus, but I remember while TO was humiliating the Eagles, everyone talking about him. Maybe Peter's newspaper landed in the bushes that day.

Texas is going to bronze Austin Wood's arm for his great feat. They figured they might as well, it has already fallen off anyway.

I have a gut feeling the Saints are going to feature a passing attack using Drew Brees this year. It's just a hunch, but if there are any games where Brees throws the ball, I want everyone to know I'm a football supergenius.

Bengoodfella said...

I like McDaniel and really have no opinion of Zimmerman, but that is such a hyperbolic story I would have had a hard time not laughing at it. Either those corners were incredibly slow or McDaniel really should have played a different position.

Fans do care about Rosenhaus. Jon Beason is already lining up for a new contract...or will be soon, and Rosenhaus is his agent. I can't stop thinking about what a hard bargain Rosenhaus is going to try and drive. I care about him because he tends to have players hold out and I think he is an asshole. Not to mention the whole T.O. event that you mentioned. Rosenhaus plays a little too close in many fan's minds.

That is a great feat by Austin Wood...but also completely unnecessary. I don't see why he has to kill himself, despite how well he is pitching.

That's a pretty good hunch Kent. Tell me, do you think Reggie Bush will be receiving some passes this year? Look into your crystal ball and see.

The Casey said...

I just wanted to check in and say that I have nothing new on your 'favorite' newsmakers, Brett Favre and Mike Vick.

KentAllard said...

My inside sources indicate the saints will unveil a plan to line Bush up at running back. Bush has been doing off-season conditioning work by running up steep hills.

I really hated to bring kardashian's ass into it, but there you go.

Dubs said...

Items relating to Brett Favre: 2.

Times mentioning there is nothing to report on Brett Favre: 2.

Really Peter? You have nothing to report on him, but you still fit him into the collumn twice and then feel the need to twice mention there is nothing to report? Yikes.

Bengoodfella said...

So to sum it up. Peter has nothing to add about Brett Favre for this week. Also, the Vikings do not know what Brett Favre will be doing in the offseason and whether he will join the team. Did you know Favre is working out with Steve McNair's son? He has nothing new about Brett Favre.

Yes, that would be 4 times, including twice saying he had nothing to add.

Nice Kim Kardashian joke there. I did not get it until you said it was a Kim Kardashian joke, which is embarrasing for me.

I have officially given up on ever getting a question answered by Peter so I just went with a boring one this week...

I forgot to copy and paste it but I chastised him for talking about Favre and saying he had nothing to add about Favre and asked him if the Chargers regretted letting Brees go and keeping Rivers. It will never get answered.

AJ said...

Maybe your question to Pete this week should be something along the lines of this:

Pete, did you realize that there were other teams in MLB outside of NY and Boston? Its not called Major League Boston. By the way, I'm in total agreement with you about that HR distance. I mean I would trust some off the wall website over anything else...not to mention those few extra feet really makes a huge differance. I think they are awarded an extra run if they hit a ball over 450 feet.

I also wanted to report some news on Brett. The news is that there is no news on Brett, yet by saying there isn't any news about Brett I'm actually making news. Kinda like a brain teaser.

Who is this Brees guy anyway? Is he the backup for Brady or is he Bretts brother? If not, I've never heard of him.

By the way, I think he just reads local newspapers for his information. I mean the Detroit papers have been talking about Stafford for weeks being the starter.

Rob said...

BGF --

Was I reading a Bill Simmons article there?? All the mentions of the Red Sox during his non-football thoughts portion..

It appears this is going to get quite inusfferable getting our fill of the Sox from PK and BS!

Rob said...

One additional thing I picked up in his column that I thought was interesting to point out..... he makes mention of Larry Fitzgerald's desire to be on the Oprah show to discuss his mom's breast cancer (which would fit in well with Oprah's demographic) - yet PK's little comment about Larry OBVIOUSLY wanting to be on the show in the worst way rubbed me the wrong way. Whats so wrong with that PK? His mom DIED and let him talk about it - you just hammered down our throats for 2 months about a pal of yours who had a stroke.. maybe let Larry have his time to. Geez!

Bengoodfella said...

AJ, I submitted my question already unfortunately. Peter King even twittered about that homerun, it's like it was the longest ball he has ever seen hit or something. I think he just wants to go to great lengths to prove that Varitek is not washed up. I checked out a homerun hit by Yunel Escobar the other night at Chase Field and the site has it at 459 feet. He crushed that ball but it felt a little long to me, I may be wrong because the true distance was 451 feet. Of course, I really have no idea so I am rambling now.

I actually saw there was some news on Favre today. There was nothing to report though, so the only news is that there is not news.

I think Brees is a CFL quarterback, I am not sure though. I think everyone knows it irritates me when writers project the players or teams they overlook on the audience. He based the entire power ranking on Shockey being injured and I don't know exactly why he did that.

I very well may end up being wrong about Stafford. I did not think he was a great pick at #1, but I could be wrong. It won't be the first time for sure.

Rob, it is sad but I have come to expect the Red Sox love from Peter and have gotten used to him talking about them. It may be because he doesn't cover baseball so I don't see a problem. Of course Bill Simmons doesn't really cover anything and I always talk about his bias for his favorite teams. When Peter starts making statements that don't make sense about his favorite teams, then I may call him on it. Sadly, I am used to it now. Really, his column this week contained a lot of filler. His 10 things had very little to do with football and he wrote 25% on a baseball player. He's such a hard little worker.

I get my fill of New York and Boston teams from pretty much every network, so I think I am used to it. On ESPN the other night they had CC Sabathia's return to Cleveland as part of "The Lead," as if it was one of the most important news stories of the day rather than just another game.

I was actually going to call Larry out on that Oprah thing and ask if he wanted Oprah to interview him about how he hit his baby mama, but ever since January I have never wanted to speak his name again. It's not working.

Peter King is not very self aware overall. So what if Larry wants to go on Oprah and talk about his mom? I don't think he wants to go on the show anymore than Peter's weekly begging for money to help out Dr. Z. You are right about that. Only a man who spent two months trying to get money for the Dr. Z (and only Dr. Z) benefit would make a comment about how Tweeting Oprah means you "obviously" want on the show and are desperate to tell your story.

ivn said...

I've always had a soft spot for Drew Brees going back from playing fantasy football. it seems like he's always on the board relatively late (Brady, Manning, Romo, Palmer, Roethlisberger, McNabb, and a handful of others always seem to go ahead of him) and I grab him and annually ride his 4,000 yards and 28 TDs into the playoffs.

am I crazy or has Peter King been writing more about the Red Sox the past couple years than Bill Simmons? Billy seems a little too absorbed in trying to find an NBA GM job (in the most passive-aggressive way half-kidding-but-not-really there any doubt this guy is a washed-up Gen-X hipster?) to follow the Red Sox. Or did he "divorce" them because the ownership wouldn't spend enough money to sign Teixeira?

as for Rivera I'd say he's the best closer of all time. whatever your thoughts are on the merit of the closer position, I think if a guy can consistently do it for going on 14 years without losing a step, in an era where teams cycle through so many relief pitchers every year (it's arguably the single hardest job to hold down on a baseball team) he deserves that kind of talk. Granted you must not watch a lot of baseball if you can't think of ten starting pitchers better than him (and I'm sure PK does not watch a lot of baseball) but he should be included in the 50 or top 75 at least for whatever that's worth.

P.S. - call me crazy but I get the impression that Adrian Peterson is good enough to win a couple more rushing titles before his career is over. keep an eye on that kid.

Bengoodfella said...

I had a soft spot for Drew Brees coming out of college. Probably too much...but not in a gay way of course. I am just saying that I really would have taken him over Vick in 2001. It's a sort of insane position but I felt that way, so you can imagine how pumped I was for the Chargers when they got Brees and Tomlinson for Vick.

I think Peter has talked about the BoSox a little bit more over the past couple of years. He probably really likes them and was afraid to bring them up at first and finally started to talk about them once he got used to his MMQB. Bill Simmons hasn't written about them all that much lately, partly because he has followed the NBA so closely and because the Celtics have taken up a lot of his summer. Not to mention, it has been a whole two years since the BoSox won the World Series. Peter talks about them every week though.

I would easily put Rivera in the top 50 of pitchers all time, that's a pretty easy decision for me. Top 10 is a little bit harder for me to justify, even given the fact that closers tend to come and go because of effectiveness and other reasons. I don't always like him, but he is one of the best of all time. Top 10 is hard for me to justify, though I would be open to a well written argument for him in the top 10.

Thanks for the tip on Adrian Peterson, I will look for him in the late rounds of a fantasy draft. I still laugh when I remember back at Peter King saying Andre Johnson was going to be around for a while, right at the tail end of last year.

My computer has been acting funny since I went to that Homerun Tracker site. I wonder if it gave me Spyware?

Martin said...

Texas has long had a terrible reputation for killing the arms of it's pitchers. This was just another sad example of it. Mark Prior just suffered another injury from hearing about this kid.

Drew Brees is only underrateed by football insiders, who seem to think that their knowledge that Drew Brees is a helluva QB is unknown by the public. 20 million people play fantasy football. Just a guess, but that makes about 18 million of them I'd say as people who know that Brees is the shiz. It's the woefully paternalistic and condescending way in which Peter, Mortenson, Salibury, and some of these other clowns treat NFL fans that pisses me off to no end. One thing I love about Tom Jackson is he manages to say things so that the casual fan gets information, while also saying it in ways that let the more hardcore fans know that he knows they know who Drew Brees is. He tends to say things like

"Look, everybody in the league knows Drew Brees is a great QB...but the Shockey injury not withstanding, they need some fucking defense."

I might be paraphrasing a bit. I jsut find that he's inclusive to the more knowledgable fans when making points. Some of these other douchebags bust out the "Hey, this Drew Brees guys, keep your eyes on him, he was pretty good last year." Yeah ya think cowboy?

Rulebook said...

I can't stop thinking about what a hard bargain Rosenhaus is going to try and drive. I care about him because he tends to have players hold out and I think he is an asshole.

Actually, Rosenhaus players generally only threaten to hold out. He is one of the best agents at getting deals done on time. Yes, they may hold out of training camp, but (and I have no research to back this up) I believe he has the lowest percentage of actual game holdouts of any major agent/agency. Rosenhaus gets a bad rep because he is a loudmouth and his players are loudmouths, but he is actually the most dependable major agent (no supporting research done) when it comes to getting a deal done in time.

Martin said...

That might be fine, and I think I've heard that it's true, for veterans, rookies missing more then a week or two of training camp, are pretty much screwed. Having a rookie in camp two weeks before the season isn't anything like a Michael Strahan rolling in.

Bengoodfella said...

I am not sure what would motivate a manager to keep a guy who has never thrown more than 40 pitches in the game for 169 pitches. It just seems a bit much to me. At least people know who he is now I guess.

That's the main problem I have with Peter King's ranking and his talk of Drew Brees. He is acting like the offense is the big question mark coming into the year. If the defense could stop someone then I think the offense won't have trouble scoring.

I honestly haven't watched Tom Jackson and Chris Berman in a year or two, so I wish I could chime in on what he says and if it is accurate or not, but I really can't.

Rosenhaus had Beason holding out of training camp when he was a rookie, so I am just afraid he will do it again....or I guess demand a trade. He is a loudmouth and I guess that is what makes me not like him that much.

AJ said...

Breaking news alert....Brett's alarm clock goes off in 4 mins. More on this developing story later.

Bengoodfella said...

It's been 30 minutes...did Favre wake up and, if so, what is he doing now? Did he see his shadow and stayed retired or did he not see his shadow and he is coming back to the NFL?

AJ said...

I'm shocked today, completely shocked at what I just read over on ESPN. Bill has an article up on something other then Boston...oh wait, nevermind.

I'm not sure if you will get to this ridiculous piece of writing or not, but I'm thinking Bill lives in denial land. Maybe he always has, I don't know, but this is so ridiculous that maybe its time ESPN shuts down their magazine instead of continuing to produce trash.

Seriously, he blames Ortiz lack of skills on his age! Yes, he thinks he is 5 or so years OLDER then what he says he is. And that his age is why he is no longer hitting, not steroids. I hate to say this, but if you are saying he is older then what he says, then this helps the cause of steroids against him! By his thoughts, he is saying at age 35-36 he hit 54 HRs...that made me laugh. He is saying he didn't do steroids, but his best HR year was when he was 36 years old. Ya oooookkkkkkkk.

He thinks that all sluggers just drop of the face of the earth in one season. Provide some evidence please. Oh wait, that would involve research. Oh and Ortiz wasn't always a slugger, the guy has a career average of .283.

Chris W said...

I'm not even convinced that Mariano Rivera is the greatest CLOSER of all time (hello Dennis Eckersley).

Certainly he's not a top 10 pitcher of all time 1,045.1 career innings. High leverage or not, that's like 1/4 of what a real pitcher pitches

Bengoodfella said...

AJ, I actually have that column ready to go. I am waiting for Peter King to put down the donuts and put up his MMQB-Tuesday Edition. I made some similar points you did but I am sure you will still have something to add. Just waiting on the King right now.

Chris, the innings he has pitched gets me as well. I feel like it is not the best measurement to use but I can't help but wonder if a closer can be one of the top pitchers of all time and pitching such a short time each game. I don't know, that's tough. Eckersley over Rivera. It could be right, but not popular. I think this is going to be an interesting HoF discussion since Rivera, Hoffman and other players are going to be up for the HoF in a couple of years. I am too lazy to compare Eckersley to Rivera, but I would imagine it could be close.

AJ said...

I couldn't include a closer in top 10 pitchers of all time, just like I couldn't include a DH in top ten players of all time. They pitch 1, maybe 2 innings a game...and they only pitch if there starter does a good enough job. They rely so heavly on the starter every game that its impossible to dertermine their true position on a top players list. The way I see it, starters don't have to rely on their closers of bullpen pitchers as much as the bullpen guys rely on their starters.

Eck in 1990 may have been the best season ever for a pitcher. But I'm not sure he is the top closer of all time. His ERA is kinda high, and only really closed for 10 seasons. Rivera on the other hand has had only 1 season with an ERA over 3, with 8 seasons under 2 ERA. Eck has only 2 seasons with an ERA under 2. I think Rivera is better overall, including those post season numbers.

AJ said...

Not sure if you have seen it yet, but his column is up:

Its not up on the main page, nor on the main page of the football have to dig to find it. not sure if they did that on purpose cuz it sucks so bad, but I have a feeling they did!

Bengoodfella said...

I guess that reliance theory is a pretty good one. I haven't looked at the numbers but I would just say that Rivera was a better closer because he did it longer and certainly had a great save percentage, plus his post season resume. I may have to do further analysis of this, but I don't think Rivera is in the top 10 of pitchers all time.

Martin said...

I have a tough time thinking of Rivera as the best reliever of all time also. Considering that the closer job didn't really appear till the late 80's, he might very well be the best closer, but best reliever? I don't think so. Rollie Fingers, Gossage, these kind of guys routinely came into the 7th inning, when the game was on the line, and pitched till the end. Back in the day they were called "stoppers", because they stopped the rally, or stopped the bleeding. How many times do we watch a Scott Shields set up guy go through the 4-5-6 hitters in the 8th, and then K-rod gets the save for getting 7-8-pinch hitter?
How about a little love for Hoyt Wilhelm? guy pitched 21seasons, 2200 IP's, ERA+ 146 with a WHIP 1.12, as a knuckleballer.

Course we are talking about Peter King, who proclaimed Yogi Berra the greatest living baseball player. Then again, maybe he thought Willie Mays and Hank Aaron were dead.

Bengoodfella said...

I think the save is a really, really overrated stat. It's just the guy who gets the last three outs in a close ball game. Another reliever could have come in and gotten the hold when the lead was 1 and pitched to the heart of the order, yet the other guy gets a save and a big contract.

You didn't just bust out with Hoyt Wilhelm did you?

Ok, I think we have decided that Rivera was not a top 10 pitcher of all time and may not even be the greatest closer, though I think he probably is, and now we have to include relievers in that category. I think I am confused, but I think we can all agree that Rivera is in the top 10 relievers of all time.

Martin said...

Sure, I'll go with that.

Chris W said...

any top 10 relievers list w/o Rivera on it is worthless.

Hell, I'd even say any top FIVE relievers list w/o Rivera on it is worthless.

He has a very legitimate claim for #1 of all time relievers, but I think we can definitely agree he is not really in the conversation of top 10 of all time PITCHERS, right?

Bengoodfella said...

If it doesn't have Rivera, it's a bullshit list. That's completely agreed. I think he is in the top 5 of relievers all time easily and I think he has a great claim to the top 3 or even #1. Just his longevity combined with his effectiveness makes me value him very highly.

Top 10 pitchers of all time? That's a tough argument to make, simply because it is hard to compare relievers and starters. Peter King is wrong about top 10 pitchers though.