Showing posts with label Baseball HoF. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Baseball HoF. Show all posts

Thursday, March 12, 2015

2 comments Sportswriter Who Doesn't Cover Baseball Regularly, Yet Has a Hall of Fame Vote, Wants to Void PED-aided Home Run Record So PED-aided Home Run Record Isn't Surpassed

Philip Hersh covers the Olympics for the "Chicago Tribune." He covered baseball quite a few years ago, so naturally he still has a Hall of Fame vote. Because that makes sense and this is one of the 50 issues currently plaguing the baseball Hall of Fame voting system. That's beside the point. Hersh is keeping his vote for the Hall of Fame to prevent the PED-users from entering the Hall of Fame. It's not really a noble cause, but whatever gets him up in the morning, I guess. Hersh thinks that MLB should void some of the home runs that A-Rod has hit so that he doesn't pass the home run record that Barry Bonds set. First off, A-Rod isn't passing Bonds. It's not happening and I would bet money on this. Second, does he recognize the logic of voiding home runs set by a PED user so he doesn't pass a record set by another PED user is all kinds of crazy? He does, but he doesn't care. The integrity of the game is what is important, even though giving a Hall of Fame vote to a guy who regularly covers the Olympics probably isn't in the best interests of the integrity of the game either.

Here is Hersh's background:

Philip Hersh, the Olympic specialist for Tribune Co., has covered 17 Olympics and reported from some 50 countries in 30 years with the Chicago Tribune. He likes to use sport as a way to write about the culture of a country or an athlete. Hersh graduated from Yale with a Bachelor of Arts in French literature. His passions include chamber music, road cycling (takes no PEDs except Advil) and Dr. Siri mysteries. 

I don't think that precludes him from having a Hall of Fame vote, but since he is a self-admitted globetrotter then I wonder how he has time to pay attention to baseball enough to continue having a Hall of Fame vote? Also, is Hersh the only baseball Hall of Fame voter with a BA in French literature?

I love Hersh's picture alongside his column. It looks like he is very displeased that his picture is being taken because these newfangled cameras are going to suck just a little bit of the soul out of him. What happened to just taking a Polaroid picture and shaking it until it developed?



Alex Rodriguez reported Monday to the Yankees’ spring training camp, two days before position players were expected.

Which of course is another example of something that shows the selfishness of A-Rod in that he didn't even warn the Yankees he would be showing up early to prepare for the season. The Yankees want A-Rod to do his own thing and handle questions from reporters in his own way without involving them, but he should at least keep them updated on his every move. They want control over how A-Rod handles and interacts with the media until they don't anymore.

The repeat doping offender must have wanted to get a head start on his recently reported vow to break Barry Bonds’ career home run record.

Oh sure, Bonds' career home run record is THE OFFICIAL home run record when it comes time for Alex Rodriguez to chase it, but when it comes time to put Bonds in the Hall of Fame based on his all-time home run record, Hersh prefers to leave Bonds out of the Hall of Fame with his tainted record. It's the official home run record until it isn't convenient for it to be the official home run record. 

If baseball’s leaders were fully committed to anti-doping, there would be no way Rodriguez could get close to Bonds’ 762 (***) home runs, no matter how many more years the 39-year-old A-Rod plays.

Absolutely true. If baseball's leaders were committed to anti-doping then they would void A-Rod's home runs so that the real home run king, Barry Bonds, could have his record stand. Well, then they would have to void Bonds' home runs since he is tied to PED's as well. So that leaves Hank Aaron's home run record, though given the fact he played during a time of vast greenie use there really isn't any guarantee that Aaron didn't use something that is now illegal for MLB players to use. So baseball should probably void that record too and give it back to Babe Ruth. Though, given Ruth's proclivities off the field, there is no guarantee he didn't have an STD that helped him hit the baseball further and there was simply no testing that could prove this STD contributed to his power surge. So it's probably best if MLB voids his home run record as well, just to be safe. That leaves Roger Connor as the all-time home run king. But he retired in 1897, so he didn't even play against any quality competition during an era when baseball integrated. It's probably best to void that home run record too. In fact, let's just say there is no home run record and talk about it no more. Void every home run ever hit and every win ever won by any team that may or may not have had a PED user, greenie user, carrier of a super-powerful STD, and player who played prior to integration. Throw away the record book and start the records over beginning during the 2015 season. That should ensure there is no funny business with the MLB record book.

Because baseball should wipe at least 190 home runs from Rodriguez’ current total of 654.

Maybe just round up to 200. Fuck it, why not? If MLB is going to start eliminating records then let's just make it easier to keep count and start rounding up or down.

Sprinter Ben Johnson lost an Olympic gold medal and a world record after a positive drug test.

A gold medal is a totally different thing from an all-time home run record in baseball. One takes place over a short period of time, while the other takes place over a 20+ year baseball career. They aren't comparable to each other.

Sprinter Marion Jones lost five Olympic medals and had all results from nearly a year-long period erased after she admitted to doping.

Still not the same thing. These are individual performances and baseball is a team sport.

Little League International stripped Jackie Robinson West of a U.S. title for playing fast and loose with geographical boundaries for its team members.

This is a team sport and it's little league, not professional baseball. I don't think MLB should be in the business of just removing home runs that a player hit because he used PED's. The MLB record book is going to be a bit of a mess already and I see no reason to remove home runs used in the win total of the teams that A-Rod played for. I think it would make the MLB record books even more convoluted and confusing to understand. Worried about "the kids" and what they will think of PED users? Try to tell "the kids" that A-Rod played for the Yankees and hit home runs that count in the win total of the Yankees but don't count for the MLB record book. Sure, the wins count, but the actions taken to get the win do not count.

And baseball leaves A-Rod’s numbers as is?

Yes. You are a quick learner.

Rodriguez told ESPN he had used performance-enhancing drugs from 2001 through 2003.  He hit 156 home runs in those three seasons.

This is how Hersh got to the 190 home runs total. Of course, if A-Rod says he used PED's from 2001-2003, then why wouldn't Hersh trust a guy who has lied multiple times about his PED use? Let's base A-Rod's career home run total on when A-Rod states he used PED's. What could go wrong?

The Miami Herald reported Rodriguez told federal agents he had used banned substances from late 2010 to October 2012.  He hit 34 home runs in 2011 and 2012.

And again, this is a number that can be trusted because A-Rod has always spit out the truth about his PED use?

Yet the .pdf document spelling out Major League Baseball’s policy on drug prevention and treatment includes no reference to invalidating / erasing individual statistics of a player who tests positive or admits to doping, a common part of discipline for such offenses in Olympic sports.

Which is why voiding the home runs that A-Rod hit so that another PED user can be the all-time home run king is a dumb idea. It's professional baseball, not the Olympics. There is no MLB policy on changing the record book or erasing statistics of a player who tests positive or admits doping and there should not be. Simply because Philip Hersh loves the Olympics and thinks the Olympic penalty for doping is the best policy doesn't mean that MLB should agree. Altering the record book and simply pretending a record wasn't set is a bad precedent for MLB to start doing. Maybe the Olympics are fine with just erasing history, good or bad, but I don't think MLB should be in that business. If so, there would be a lot of history and records set in the 1960's that violated today's MLB policy on drug preventing and treatment. If records are set which violate MLB's policy on drug prevention and treatment, then those records need to be consistently erased from the record books. We wouldn't want a stain on the record book by having any greenie users holding important MLB records.

MLB spokesman Pat Courtney confirmed in an email that the MLB discipline for doping, proved by test or admission, does not include erasing statistics.

Did this really require an email confirmation? There is nothing in the policy that mentions erasing statistics and MLB has never erased statistics before.

It will be even more laughable if A-Rod, who is returning from a one-season doping suspension, passes Bonds’ record, even if that mark hardly is sacrosanct.

MLB wouldn't want the travesty of a PED user surpassing the home run mark set by another PED user. It seems that Hersh uses the LIFO method of statistic erasing. The last person who sets the home run record by using PED's is the person whose name gets erased from the record book first. Bonds may have used PED's, but he was before A-Rod in the record books so his tainted record stays.

It already needs asterisks (***) because of Bonds’ involvement with PEDs, his ridiculous claims of having used them unknowingly notwithstanding.

Why does Bonds get an asterisk but A-Rod's record (that he won't achieve) gets erased completely? The randomness of life? Or is this just how the Olympics would handle the situation? We all know the IOC is an incorruptible organization so it's best to base MLB policies on what the IOC would do in a given situation.

If Manfred wanted to show the sport really has cleaned itself up and that his is a new era, he should start by wiping all the demonstrably tainted statistics from the record books.

But rest assured, this wiping of tainted statistics from the record books would have to include any baseball players in the 1950's through the 1970's that used a substance which is now banned by MLB. The statistics weren't tainted at the time they were set, but those statistics were achieved using methods that violate the current MLB policy on drug prevention.

That means not only A-Rod’s but those of every other player for whom there is a known period of use.

Of course, with many of these players having lied about using PED's in the first place, it's smart to just trust them on the time period in which they used PED's. Of course.

Their best days shouldn’t be numbered.

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE!

Philip Hersh will now retire from writing or thinking about baseball until next winter when his Hall of Fame ballot comes in the mail. These are your Hall of Fame voters.

Monday, February 9, 2015

0 comments Bill Madden Has Some Thoughts on an Expanded Hall of Fame Ballot and Will Vote for Mike Piazza Just as Soon as He Can Predict the Future

Bill Madden does not always enjoy new ideas. He is not cool with the Hall of Fame proposal to allow voters to choose 12 candidates on their ballot. Madden, who just a short year and a half ago missed steroids' and their impact on baseball, also won't vote for Mike Piazza to enter the Hall of Fame until he knows for sure that Piazza didn't use steroids. So basically he isn't going to ever vote for Mike Piazza to enter the Hall of Fame, because I can't imagine there will be more information revealed about whether a baseball player who retired five years ago used PED's or not when he played.

I'll start first with Bill Madden's sadness at the baseball Hall of Fame changing the selection process even just a little bit. After all, the process has worked perfectly for 71 years, why should it change now? Other than the Steroid Era presents a problem that Hall of Fame voters admit they aren't sure how to solve and haven't ever had to deal with in the past which some believe is affecting the process, of course. And other than an era of baseball that has changed the way voters consider candidates, nothing has changed from 71 years ago. Change isn't always good, sometimes it's scary when you don't have the energy to adjust to these changes.

No matter how many people the Baseball Writers’ Association votes into the Hall of Fame — Tuesday’s class of Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz and Craig Biggio was the biggest since 1955 — there are always those who want to change the process,

Why change something that is working and causes very little controversy?

even though that process and the way it’s played out over 71 years are why baseball’s shrine at Cooperstown is the only Hall of Fame anybody cares about so passionately.

Yes, people care about the baseball Hall of Fame so passionately because of the process and how voting works. If the Hall of Fame allowed voters to include 12 potential inductees on the ballot it would ruin the process forever. FOREVER, I tell you! If two more players can be placed on a single voter's ballot it would disrupt the delicate balance that currently exists which makes the Hall of Fame voting so flawless.

Johnson, with his 303 wins, 4,875 strikeouts (the second-most ever) and five Cy Young Awards; Pedro, with his three Cy Youngs, five ERA titles and three strikeout titles; “Double Duty” Smoltz, with his 213 wins and 154 saves and 15-4, 2.67 postseason record; and the versatile Biggio, with his 3,060 hits and 668 doubles, the most by a righthanded hitter, were clearly the cream of one of the strongest Hall of Fame ballots ever, and as a result, a lot of eminently Hall-worthy candidates not linked to steroids — such as Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina and Jeff Kent — suffered the consequences, with vote totals not even approaching 50% when 75% is required for election.

This is pretty annoying. Why should Hall-worthy candidates not receive votes because Johnson, Smoltz, Biggio and Pedro were on the ballot? If Schilling, Kent, and Mussina are all worthy of getting a Hall of Fame vote when the ballot is not as loaded then they wouldn't they be worthy when there is a more loaded ballot? The purpose of voting for the Hall of Fame isn't to elect new members every year, but to elect worthy members when they are worthy. If Curt Schilling is not a Hall of Famer on a loaded ballot, then he isn't a Hall of Famer on a weaker ballot either. His status doesn't and should not change simply because there are considered to be fewer Hall-worthy candidates on the ballot. I know this isn't how many of these moronic voters work, but it's how they should work. The point isn't to save votes for Schilling on a less loaded ballot, but to vote for him if he deserves induction no matter how many other worthy candidates are on the ballot.

On one hand, you still have the diehard fans and other media critics who feel the baseball writers should not have the power to keep the accused or suspected steroid cheats — Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Co. — out of Cooperstown

I don't know of any person who has written that Hall of Fame voters should not have the power to keep these suspected and accused steroid cheats out of the Hall of Fame. I've read people opine the voters SHOULD NOT keep these accused and suspected cheats out of the Hall of Fame, but not read these voters lack the power to do. I feel like Bill Madden doesn't even understand the argument the opposition to his point of view is making and he prefers to simply create the argument he believes they are making, in place of being informed.

What’s a mockery is what Bonds did to the home run records and the argument that, well, he was already a Hall of Famer before he started doing steroids.

I think he was.

As if we know exactly when that was, just like we didn’t know Alex Rodriguez was doing steroids all those years with the Yankees — and not just from 2001-2003 with Texas — until he confessed as much to the feds last summer.

Bill Madden pulls out the "We don't know when Barry Bonds started cheating" card. So Bill Madden knows Barry Bonds was cheating, because just look at his statistics, but he isn't able to tell when exactly Bonds started using steroids. Madden has no way of looking at Bonds' statistics and determining what seasons Bonds was clean, but he is an expert at looking at Bonds' statistics and knowing for sure that Bonds was cheating and when. It's funny how that works isn't it? Madden knows Bonds cheated, he just can't tell if Bonds' statistics were affected by it or not.

One would think that Bill Madden could use the same information that accuses of Bonds of using PED's to figure out when Bonds started using PED's and work his career backwards from there. But why would Madden use the same information he uses to indict Bonds in order to figure out whether Bonds was a Hall of Famer prior to his steroid use? It's Madden's job to do the smallest amount of research possible in order to come to the conclusion he wants to reach.

It has been shared in books that Bonds started using steroids after he saw how McGwire and Sosa were able to put up fantastic numbers by using them. So that would be around 1998-1999. A look at Bonds' career shows this to be true. Bonds had normal human numbers until the 2000 season when he all of a sudden exploded and started hitting career highs in home run numbers. So just looking at Bonds' career statistics it can be seen he probably started using PED's in 1999 or 2000. So he was a Hall of Fame prior to using PED's because he would have had 3 MVP awards, 445 home runs, 1299 RBI's, 2010 hits, and 8 Gold Gloves. Assuming that Bonds never used steroids he would have been a Hall of Famer with the statistics he accumulated from age 35 to when he retired. Even if Bonds retired in 1999 and never played again he would have been 40th in home runs all time, which would be even higher if I took the time to remove the other players above him who were suspected or accused of using PED's. Basically, I think Bonds was a Hall of Famer if he never used PED's and posted numbers that regressed like a normal 35 year old would regress.

The point is, it doesn’t matter when or for how long a player cheated. A cheater is a cheater and shouldn’t be bestowed with baseball’s highest honor.

Fine, that's your point of view, but I think if Bonds had never used steroids then he would have been a Hall of Famer. In determining a player's Hall of Fame credentials some voters would consider Bonds' numbers only when he was clean and vote for him anyway. A cheater is a cheater, but if the time when Bonds wasn't cheating is considered then he possibly should be bestowed with baseball's highest honor. He didn't cheat his whole career. It's pretty obvious when looking at his career statistics.

But there is now another faction of critics of the process — among the baseball writers themselves — complaining about the Hall limiting voters to “up to 10” candidates. Writers are venting over not having enough room on their ballot for players such as Mussina, Schilling or Kent, whom they really wanted to vote for but could not because they prioritized 10 other people.

I really fail to see the issue with having 12 candidates on the ballot. As will be pointed by Bill Madden, and pointed out by others, most voters don't even vote for 10 candidates. So what's the harm in responding to the Steroid Era's impact on the ballot by simply allowing voters to choose 12 candidates permanently or even temporarily? Voters will vote for who they choose to vote for. Maybe 4 candidates, maybe 12. No one gets hurt and the ballot gets changed in response to voters who are vexed by the Steroid Era players on the ballot.

Recently, a special committee formed by the Baseball Writers’ Association submitted a request to the Hall’s Board of Directors to expand the ballot to at least 12.

I suspect the request is going to be denied — as it should be.

Yes, because change is bad. The Steroid Era provides a predicament that the baseball Hall of Fame hasn't encountered before, but the Hall of Fame should not adjust the voting process in order to adjust to the predicament. Obviously.

Yes, the ballots in the last two years have been overcrowded with top quality candidates — in successive years, you had three no-brainer first ballot guys, Maddux, Tom Glavine, Frank Thomas, Johnson, Martinez and Smoltz, all of whom were elected — and it has been exacerbated by the continued presence on the ballot of Bonds and Clemens, who would’ve been elected by now had they not been the poster boys for steroid cheating

But no special consideration should be given to deal with this overcrowding and the presence of Bonds and Clemens on the ballot. Again, this would be a change and the Hall of Fame balloting has done fine for 71 year now without change. Why should an unprecedented situation call for a change now?

Despite the laments of all those writers who wanted to vote for so many of the players who finished way down in the voting, if only they had room, what this election clearly showed is that the overwhelming sentiment of the writers was that those players were not in the same class as Johnson, Martinez, Smoltz and Biggio.

So there is nothing to worry about by increasing the number of candidates who voters can vote for. No unworthy Hall candidates will be elected into the Hall of Fame and those writers who want more room to vote for candidates they perceive as worthy will receive two extra spaces on the ballot. Everyone is happy.

It’s not to say they’re not worthy or will never get in, they just have to wait for a much leaner ballot, quality-wise.

WHICH MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE TO ME AND SHOULDN'T MAKE SENSE TO BILL MADDEN EITHER!

If a player is worthy, then why should a lean or heavy ballot matter? A player's Hall of Fame candidacy should be irrelevant to what the rest of the ballot looks like. This infuriates me about the Hall of Fame voting. A player is suddenly deemed worthy of the Hall of Fame if no other quality candidates are on the ballot, but if the ballot is heavy then all of a sudden that player's Hall of Fame resume doesn't look as good, despite the fact nothing at all has changed about his candidacy. All of a sudden, Curt Schilling becomes the skinniest kid at fat camp because OF COURSE they have to elect someone to the Hall of Fame every year. Sure, Schilling wasn't worthy last year, but that's because the players around him were worthy. Now that the ballot is lighter, Schilling's candidacy which hasn't changed at all suddenly looks better to Hall of Fame voters.

And for the record, only 280 of the 540 voting writers, barely more than 50%, used all 10 spots on their ballots. The average was 8.4 spots per ballot.

Then increasing the amount of spots available to use for worthy candidates to 12 wouldn't make a difference at all. It would simply help out the 50% of voters who may want to vote for more than 10 candidates. Bill Madden can't argue increasing the number of spots would hurt or dramatically alter the Hall of Fame and then be all like, "Well, no one even uses those spots anyway." If no one uses the spots, then the Hall of Fame isn't in danger of being hurt or altered dramatically.

For what it’s worth to the “increase the ballot” bunch, 17 players, including the four just elected, will be coming off the ballot next year and, of the 2016 newcomers, only Ken Griffey Jr. could be considered a no-brainer

Which means these brain dead voters will all of a sudden think inducting Curt Schilling is a good idea, since we wouldn't want Ken Griffey Jr. to be standing alone on the podium would we? All of a sudden, Curt Schilling should be in the Hall of Fame. Not based on his career achievements, but based on the lighter ballot.

(The year after, the biggest names are Vladimir Guerrero, Jorge Posada and steroids-tainted Manny Ramirez and Pudge Rodriguez — none of them automatics.)

Vlad should be in. I didn't know Pudge Rodriguez was officially steroid-tainted. He's the Hispanic version of Mike Piazza I guess. I can't wait to see articles about Pudge's regression later in his career as proof of his PED  use, while the fact other Hall of Fame catchers have regressed later in their career due to the wear and tear of the position will be ignored.

So for those voters who couldn’t find room for Schilling, Mussina or Kent this year, that’s at least four spaces that have opened up for you next year.

(Bangs head on the wall)

Vote for these guys, that's fine. Just don't vote for them next year, but not vote for them this year, simply because the ballot is lighter is next year.

And for those who voted for Bonds and Clemens, don’t bother wasting any of your 10 spaces on them anymore. They’re never getting in.

But some voters do want to waste their space voting for these guys. That's the purpose of increasing the spots on the ballot by two. The only reason Bill Madden doesn't want to increase the spots available to 12 is because he knows it is intended to allow voters to vote for Hall of Fame-worthy candidates who are PED users. He's already stated the increase to 12 wouldn't change much because barely 50% of voters put 10 players on their ballot this year anyway.

Now Bill Madden tells his readers why he didn't vote for Mike Piazza. It's because he can't predict the future and what if in the future it turns out Mike Piazza is found to have used steroids? Not that Madden would pay attention to rumors around Piazza of course, but he just wants to be sure no information that probably won't come out ends up not coming out. I'm sure Piazza will get Madden's vote during his last year of eligibility, right? Because that's the final chance for additional information to come out about Piazza's suspected PED use. I'm sure Madden isn't just saying he is waiting for additional information to come out as an excuse to not vote for Piazza based on rumors, innuendo, and bacne.

First of all, I’ve always had my suspicions about Piazza, even though he never tested positive nor was he mentioned in the Mitchell Report.

This doesn't sound like the opening statement of a sportswriter who is definitely open-minded about waiting to find information about Piazza in the future. It sounds like the opening statement of a sportswriter who thinks Mike Piazza used steroids and can't figure out a way to prove it yet. So basically Madden has his mind made up, he just wants to wait to find proof that verifies his conclusion, and then he won't vote for Piazza either way.

Those suspicions were heightened when players who played against Piazza, a number of players, told me he used steroids.

Bitter, angry, competitive opponents stated that Mike Piazza used steroids? If there is a better source for accurate information on a player's PED use then guys who used to play against that player then I don't know what it could be. I'm sure these players wouldn't smear Piazza's name to further their own agenda or discredit Piazza's accomplishments. Competitive athletes would never do that.

Again, there may have been no proof of that, but I do know that those same players didn’t tell me other players were on steroids who weren’t.

How does Bill Madden know which players were on steroids and which weren't? Contrary to what he wants to believe, it's not that easy to tell. I'm sure Madden is one of those who had Jason Grimsley, Jay Gibbons and Francisco Cervelli pegged from the very start. He's the Steroid Whisperer and knows who has and has not used steroids.

Sure, there may be no proof that Piazza used steroids but these players didn't tell Bill Madden other players were on steroids and they weren't. So obviously because these players had never lied before, they would not lie about Piazza. The first lie is always the hardest to figure out by the way.

Nobody ever told me Fred McGriff was on steroids, or Jeff Kent.

Okay, so that means they were definitely clean? Jeff Kent had a few 'roid rage fights with Barry Bonds through the years. I'd have some suspicions about him, but I guess he had no bacne.

So with all of that, I decided to withhold my vote on Piazza, the reason being I did not want to vote somebody into the Hall of Fame who I would then find out two or three years later had, in fact, been a steroids cheat.

See, this is just an excuse. Bill Madden just doesn't want to vote for Piazza because he believes he is a steroids cheat. Madden is waiting for revelations to come out which prove his theory that Piazza used PED's, and if these revelations never occur, he's still not voting for Piazza. You can bank on that.

As far as anyone knew for certain, Alex Rodriguez did steroids only those three years he was in Texas, because that’s what he told us, over and over again. And then five years later, we find out different: It turns out Rodriguez was a huge figure in the Biogenesis doping scandal in Miami, was suspended for a season by Major League Baseball even as he continued to deny publicly that he used steroids, then finally confessed to federal investigators that he was indeed a user during the years he was with the Yankees.

And if Bill Madden can't tell the difference in a two-admitted steroid user and a suspected steroid user then there is absolutely no hope for him. In fact, this comparison to A-Rod simply goes to my conclusion that Madden is hiding behind the whole "I need more information about Piazza's PED use" as an excuse for simply not wanting to vote for Piazza. There's not going to be information that proves Piazza didn't use steroids, so the only information Madden is waiting on is information that proves the conclusion he has already reached. So no matter what happens, Bill Madden is not voting for Mike Piazza. Just say it and don't hide behind the desperate search for new information like you are O.J. trying to find his wife's killers.

That’s why I withheld my vote on Mike Piazza.

So because an admitted steroid user again got caught using steroids then a suspected steroid user shouldn't get a vote? I guess that makes sense to someone who feels strongly that Mike Piazza used steroids. The same lack of benefit of the doubt that Madden is giving Piazza is the reason Madden will never vote for Piazza until he disproves a negative. Just don't hide behind the "I need more information on Piazza's suspected PED use" excuse. If you buy the rumors then your mind is already made up.

Conceivably, I may eventually vote for him.

You probably will not. Conceivably.

Of course my vote may not be necessary anyway, because barring revelations between now and then that he was a steroid user, I think he is going to get elected next year.

Maybe. I'm sure Bill Madden thinks Piazza will definitely get elected into the Hall of Fame if the ballot allows 12 candidates to receive a vote.

With or without my vote.

Probably without your vote. If you aren't going to vote for Mike Piazza just say it's because you think he used PED's. Don't say it's because you suspect he used PED's and are waiting for more information. Your readers aren't as dumb as you think they are. 

I don't like Mike Piazza and I'm tired of seeming like I like him and want to defend him.

Friday, December 19, 2014

4 comments Murray Chass Bases His Hall of Fame Vote on Bacne And Rumors

It's well-known around these parts that Murray Chass is obsessed with Mike Piazza and his bacne. When he isn't solidifying his case against Mike Piazza entering the Hall of Fame with scientific bacne reports, suspicious that Piazza will admit to PED use in his book conveniently released AFTER he has been elected to the Hall of Fame, admitting that, okay maybe Piazza didn't admit to PED use in his book, but he still totally used PED's and the bacne proves it, Murray is threatening to stop voting for the Hall of Fame if Jack Morris isn't inducted into the Hall of Fame. It turns out Murray is still voting for the Baseball Hall of Fame and Jack Morris wasn't inducted in his final year of eligibility. You know, no one will believe what Murray has to say if he continues bluffing or lying like this.

I didn't expect that Murray would actually give away his Hall of Fame vote. He probably enjoys the power and the ability to be one of baseball's moral arbiters too much to give up his vote. That's exactly what Murray is doing today on his non-blog. He talks about Barry Bonds' ego-trip that leads him to believe he should be inducted into the Hall of Fame, and of course, discusses Mike Piazza's bacne. It seems that Murray is some sort of bacne expert. But remember, this isn't a blog, it's a diary of Murray's thoughts electronically written and placed on the Internet. That's completely different from having a blog.

Hear ye! hear ye! hear ye! Barry Bonds deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, and he shall be elected to the Hall of Fame.

Who makes such a proclamation? Why none other than Bonds himself.

I think this deserves a "BREAKING NEWS" label. A professional athlete believes that he deserves to be elected into that sport's Hall of Fame? Say it isn't so, Murray! How unforeseen is this turn of events? Do athletes usually have a great amount of confidence in their skill level as Bonds is displaying here or is his insistence he should be in the Hall of Fame just a result of his huge ego overshooting his career accomplishments? I know the answer, but of course, Murray comes to a different answer.

In a typically arrogant and self-serving interview with an MLB.com reporter who has long been a Bonds sycophant, Bonds said:

What's more arrogant? To call another baseball reporter "arrogant" while referring to and quoting an article that reporter wrote WITHOUT ACTUALLY LINKING THE ARTICLE in your non-blog column, or actually being an arrogant baseball reporter? I would argue criticizing a fellow baseball writer and using his words without even kindly providing a link to the article you are criticizing is more arrogant. Of course, Murray is a non-blogger, so he doesn't understand the courtesy required on the Interwebs. Criticize if you will, but provide a link so the reader can make a decision for him/herself.

“I love Major League Baseball. I always have and I loved playing the game. I don’t have any doubts that I’ll get there in time. I’m bothered about it, but I don’t sit here going, ‘I’m not going to make it.’ I don’t see how it stays the way it’s going. In my mind, in my head, I’m a lot more positive about it than I am negative. I think eventually they’ll do the right thing.”

I do disagree with Bonds' language of "do the right thing," otherwise there is nothing to report here. Bonds thinks he should be in the Hall of Fame and he's trying to stay positive. I don't think Bonds is out of line or really saying anything that a reasonable person (in other words, not a person who builds an anti-Hall of Fame case around bacne) wouldn't expect Bonds to say.

“I deserve to be there. Clemens deserves to be there. The guys that are supposed to be there are supposed to be there. Period. I don’t even know how to say it. We are Hall of Famers. Why are we having these conversations about it? Why are we talking about a baseball era that has come and gone?

“Era, era, era. Do the best players in the game deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? Yes. Everything that everyone has accomplished in baseball is in that book. Correct? So if that’s correct, then we need to be in there. End of story.”

I figure the "deserve to be there" part really has Murray's attention and is a source of anger for him. As a Hall of Fame moral arbiter, no one DESERVES to be in the Hall of Fame. Except for Jack Morris of course. Otherwise, Bonds is still pleading his case for the Hall of Fame and doing so in terms where he thinks his records that are recognized by MLB should also be recognized by the Hall of Fame. Again, it's a simple argument that really shouldn't be offensive.

Bonds referred to the baseball record book, not the excellent 2006 book “Game of Shadows” that tells you all you need to know about Bonds and performance-enhancing drugs.

Except the book left out that chapter about bacne. Murray will forgive the authors for this oversight just this once.

But Bonds indeed is in the record book – for having hit the most home runs in a single season (73) and for having hit the most home runs in a career (762). He is there, on page 19 of The Elias Book of Baseball Records, because Major League Baseball has not amended his achievements.

Seymour Siwoff, decades-long head of Elias Sports Bureau, explained why Bonds is there.

“He wasn’t accused of anything,” Siwoff said in a telephone interview Saturday, then referring specifically to the 73 home runs Bonds hit in 2001 added, “When he did it, he wasn’t guilty of anything we knew of so he was put in. It was the record. I couldn’t dispute it.”

Don't be a Bonds sycophant! Just change the record books on your own.

In retrospect, Siwoff said, “We know it’s a fraud. He never hit more than 49 home runs and he suddenly hits 73.”

What was his bacne status? THAT is the real test of steroid use. What do the record books say about Bonds' bacne status and give Murray a straight answer or he will accuse you of being in league with Bonds.

As for Bonds’ linking the record book and the Hall of Fame, Siwoff said, “The book has no bearing on the Hall of Fame.”

I am making a grimace face. Not a Grimace face like this, but a grimace/wince face more like this.

I mean, yeah, the record book has no bearing on the Hall of Fame in a world where Hall of Fame voters don't use the record book or statistics a player compiled that appear in the record book as part of a player's Hall of Fame candidacy. In the real world, the record book does have a bearing on the Hall of Fame. Like or not.

Bonds is not in the Hall of Fame because in the two years he has been on the ballot, the voters – members of the Baseball Writers Association – have rejected his achievements, believing they were chemically aided.

Voting individually but collectively coming to the same conclusion, they have done that because they believe Bonds achieved his record numbers with the aid of performance-enhancing drugs.

This is an instance where I'm not entirely sure what the hell Murray is trying to prove. Yes, the voters seem to think Bonds' achievements were chemically aided. That seems clear. I am not sure who would argue otherwise. This doesn't mean Barry Bonds shouldn't believe that he should be a member of the Hall of Fame. It's a personal opinion he holds.

Circumstantial evidence, however, weighs heavily against Bonds. In the five seasons 2000 through 2004 Bonds hit 258 home runs. In the previous five years he hit 186. Siwoff pointed out the unnatural leap in Bonds’ single-season home runs.

I think it's past the "Did Bonds use PED's?" part of the discussion. For the sake of argument, let's assume he did use PED's. That's the point we are at, so Murray shouldn't waste time explaining why he thinks Bonds used PED's and focus more on bacne and how rumors about Jeff Bagwell are considered sufficient evidence to prevent him from being inducted into the Hall of Fame.

Sosa, meanwhile, was raising an equal amount of eyebrows. He slugged 292 home runs in a five-year period, including more than 60 in three of four seasons within those five years.

And we have reached the "rambling along without a point" portion of the column on Murray's non-blog. 

Before Sosa and McGwire waged their PED duel in 1998, Roger Maris and Babe Ruth had been the only players to reach 60, and they did it once each. From 1927 until 1998, two players reached 60. In the four-year span 1998-2001, three players did it a total of six times.

Like Bonds, Sosa eluded detection, but is any more circumstantial evidence needed? Convicts have been executed on less.

Well then the only solution is that Bonds definitely should be executed. If his hat no longer fits then you must not acquit. I would say give Bonds the electric chair, but it could only serve as a way to make him stronger if something goes wrong and Bonds' steroid strength turns into the ability to shoot electric charges from his hands at unsuspecting people on the street requiring a superhero like Derek Jeter to come along and save baseball and America by taking down Bonds "the right way." So the electric chair is out.

I think lethal injection is the way to go to execute Bonds. But hold on, wouldn't he enjoy the feeling of needles going in his arm? Isn't that what got him into the situation in the first place? So no lethal injection.

Then perhaps Bonds should be hanged (hung?), but how on Earth would anyone find rope big enough to get around his huge steroid-aided neck?

I guess the only option to execute Bonds based on the circumstantial evidence is to execute him by firing squad. Let's get it done.

In an interview a couple of years before the recent one, the same reporter, Barry Bloom, quoted Bonds as saying about the Hall of Fame:

Yet again, Murray doesn't provide a link. I say some critical things on this blog, but I always provide a link. I think it's only the right way to go about criticizing someone on the Internet. Obviously, as a non-blogger Murray disagrees.

“You have to vote on baseball the way baseball needs to be voted on. If you vote on your assumptions or what you believe or what you think might have been going on there, that’s your problem. You’re at fault. It has nothing to do with what your opinion is. Period. 

This really isn't a terrible point overall. In regard to Bonds, the assumption he cheated by using PED's is there and I think it's a pretty safe assumption. Now in the case of other Hall of Fame candidates like Jeff Bagwell then I think this may be good advice. 

“If that’s the case, you better go way, way back and start thinking about your opinions. If that’s how you feel life should be run, I would say then you run your Hall of Fame the way you want to run your Hall of Fame. That’s what I think. That’s my personal opinion. If you want to do the Hall of Fame the way the Hall of Fame is supposed to be done, then you make the right decision on that. If you don’t, that’s on you. To stamp something on your assumptions, it doesn’t work for me.”

Unfortunately for Bonds, the Hall of Fame voters did run the Hall of Fame the way they wanted to run it and that's why he isn't in the Hall of Fame. I do agree with not "stamping something based on assumptions." I think that can be a dangerous game.

His words did not sway them. With 75 percent of the vote needed for election, Bonds received 36.2 percent, less than half. In his second appearance on the ballot last year, he fared even worse, dropping to 34.7 percent.

Look at who is grasping the use of basic statistics! And here I thought Murray Chass would tally Hall of Fame voting totals for a player based on "feel."

The history of Hall of Fame voting shows that when players of star status appear for the first time, others on the ballot suffer.

Now Bonds is selfishly hurting others with his insistence that he thinks he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Stop advocating for yourself and taking away votes for others! Only Jack Morris is allowed to do that.

It is always possible that something could happen that would catapult Bonds into the Hall of Fame, but he shouldn’t hold his breath.

Well, he won't have any breath after he gets executed through the use of circumstantial evidence for Premeditated PED Use. This crime carries a death sentence, while Involuntary PED Use, the kind that Andy Pettitte has been convicted of carries a sentence of everyone forgetting about it because he acted contrite.

There is also the crime of Assumption of PED Use Due To Affiliation with Other PED Users. This is the crime Jeff Bagwell is guilty of. Bonds can be convicted of that crime as well. The only way to avoid being convicted for this PED-related crime is to be Derek Jeter.

The Hall’s board also knows that players already in the Hall object to being joined by players whose credentials includes PEDs. Some members have gone so far as to say they would boycott induction ceremonies if steroids users are elected.

If these members have intestinal fortitude of backing up their threats with actions like Murray Chass did when he claimed he was giving away his Hall of Fame vote if Jack Morris wasn't inducted in his final year of eligibility, then I would expect the entire Hall board to be present even if Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and McGwire all got elected in the same Hall of Fame class.

Three other players on the ballot have resumes that are foggier than these five. Jeff Bagwell, Mike Piazza and Craig Biggio have never been linked to steroids by anything other than news media mention, 

And by "news media mention" what Murray means is "there is no direct evidence that they used steroids, but writers like me won't stop talking about their assumed link to steroids so it's just accepted as fact they used steroids at this point."

It must be nice to be the one stirring the dust about a story and then blame the media attention on other "news media." I can't think of a sportswriter more fervent in his insistence that Mike Piazza used steroids than Murray Chass. So one of the biggest ways Piazza is linked to steroids is through Murray's refusal to drop the issue of Piazza's bacne as anything more than speculation as to Piazza's PED use.

but in my view more time is needed to learn more about their past practices.

What the fuck does this even mean? "...more time is needed to learn more about their past practices."

Does Murray want the Hall of Fame to hire an outside investigative firm and do interviews as to whether Bagwell, Piazza and Biggio used steroids? If it requires this much work to get some semblance of an answer on whether any/all of these three players used PED's, then I think perhaps it should just be assumed they didn't use those PED's. I mean, "more time" is needed? Why not just assume these players didn't use PED's since there isn't evidence they did rather than spend time and money drumming up evidence one way or another. Murray just wants the tiniest bit of circumstantial evidence that he could use to point and say, "See! I told you Mike Piazza used steroids!"

I voted for Bagwell on his first appearance on the ballot, when he received 41.7 percent of the votes. After several people told me that he had been heavily involved in steroids, I left him off my ballot the second year.

Wait, what? Murray Chass, a professional journalist and amateur non-blogger, voted for Bagwell, and then some people whispered in his ear that Bagwell used steroids and Chass thought, "Well fuck my original thoughts, CLEARLY there is something to this rumor that Bagwell used steroids. After all, when have rumors ever been wrong? I'm going to now change my vote based on the speculation others have told me without personally doing one little bit of investigation into the truth of this speculation."

So yes, Murray Chass thinks more information needs to be learned about Bagwell's past practices in order to prove that Bagwell didn't use steroids, but ZERO investigation needs to be done in order to find out if the rumors he's being told by "several people" of Bagwell's PED use are true or not. Wow, that's a pretty embarrassing set of positions for a respected sportswriter. In fact, I think I would call this position of refusing to do research on second-hand information to be arrogant and even a little self-serving.

He received 56 percent of the votes that year and climbed to 59.6 percent the next year. But last year he slipped to 54.3 percent, perhaps a victim of the newcomers on the ballot.

Barry Bonds is such an asshole. Now he is lowering the vote total of Hall of Fame candidates that Murray Chass doesn't even believe should be in the Hall of Fame. YOU ARE JUST HURTING YOUR OWN SCUMMY KIND NOW!

Biggio will almost certainly be elected this time. He was only two votes short of election in the last election and should clear the threshold, even though a reporter friend told me that a dozen or more players told him that Biggio used steroids.

I bet there are a dozen or so players who will say that Biggio didn't use steroids. Why blindly accept one group's word over another group's word? Other than the fact Murray has a conclusion he wants to reach so he has no use for anyone who would tell him differently from what he wants to believe is true.

When I wrote that, Biggio’s fans were outraged.

I'm not a Biggio fan in any way. I didn't really like him as a player. I am a fan of using reason to make decisions and not ignoring information that disputes my conclusion, while only paying attention to information that proves the conclusion I want to reach. 

If it’s not clear by now, I don’t vote for steroids-tainted players. 

If it's also not clear by now, Murray Chass struggles with what is a rumor and what needs to be investigated as to whether it is rumor or not. 

If steroids were legal, I’d have no problem with players using them. But they are illegal, and players who use them cheat. I can’t vote for players who cheat at the expense of their fellow players who don’t cheat.

That brings me to Piazza...

It shouldn't bring you to Piazza because he hasn't been proven to have cheated. Perhaps he did, but this goes double for Jeff Bagwell, speculation of PED use isn't proof of PED use. 

But I have written about my belief that he was one of the steroids gang.

I have a lot of beliefs, but simply because they are my beliefs doesn't make them factually true. I have a list of players in my head of baseball players that I believe used PED's, but it doesn't mean I am correct. I think potentially up to 35-40% of NFL and NBA players use some some form of PED, because those are some really big guys. Does it mean my belief is true and if I were a sportswriter I could just start eliminating these players from Hall of Fame contention? Absolutely not. There should be proof, not conjecture or a couple dudes whispering sweet nothing rumors in my ear. Hall of Fame voters have to be better than that.

His many fans have excoriated me for my view, but they are blind to what I believe is strong evidence of his use.

Bacne. Maybe Piazza did use PED's. I'm not waffling on the issue. Gun to my head, I die if the answer is wrong, I think Piazza used PED's. But there's no proof of this like there is proof of other baseball players. I'm the person who thinks Marcus Giles used PED's. Little Marcus Giles. This is why personal beliefs can't be taken into account on issues like this. Leave out Bonds if you think he used PED's. Whatever, fine. It's Murray's right as a Hall of Fame voter. Don't invent reasons to leave out players from the Hall of Fame because of your personal beliefs that haven't been proven publicly.

I am not a Mike Piazza fan. I actually hated him as a player and wish Roger Clemens had hit him with the bat he threw. So I'm not a fan, but I will excoriate Murray for his view because there are other causes of bacne that pertain to Piazza. His bacne isn't "strong evidence" of his PED use, it is circumstantial evidence used to reach a conclusion Murray wants to reach. If Piazza were David Eckstein's size then Murray would chalk his bacne up to another cause, but because Piazza is a bigger guy then it's an easy and lazy conclusion to reach that Piazza's PED use can be seen in his bacne.

When he played for the New York Mets, he didn’t hide his acne-covered back. Steroids experts say that Piazza’s condition is one of the signs of steroids use.

Yes, it is a sign of steroid use. What steroid experts haven't told Murray, or he has chosen to ignore, is that there are other causes of bacne that apply directly to Piazza as a baseball player.  

Heredity may also be a factor in how acne affects you. If one or both of your parents had acne, you're at a greater risk for inheriting the triggers that cause overproduction of sebum and lead to clogged follicles 

Has Murray checked any of Piazza's relatives for bacne? Hey, Tommy Lasorda is related to Mike Piazza! Murray should make Lasorda take his shirt off to check for bacne.

Okay, now for the real cause of Piazza's bacne if one doesn't just care to claim it is PED-related:

If you participate in sports, you can get acne mechanica along your hairline from wearing a helmet.

HEY! Piazza wore a helmet while playing baseball!

Tight uniforms that put a lot of pressure on the skin can also be a cause of acne mechanica.

So playing in a tight uniform in the hot summer sun could cause acne as well? Weirdly, that's exactly what Piazza was doing for most of his career while playing catcher. It's almost like this could be an explanation for Piazza's bacne, just like his PED use could be an explanation for his bacne. It's funny how Murray just conveniently ignores any other logical causes of Piazza's bacne so he can reach the conclusion he wants to reach.

When I first wrote about Piazza’s possible use several years ago, his fans ridiculed me. They completely ignored a critical aspect of what I wrote. 

Sort of like how you ignored tight uniforms can put pressure on the skin creating bacne? Or exactly like that? I think it is hilarious that Murray is playing the victim here, acting like everyone else is ignoring reasonable information he is presenting to them, while he ignores reasonable evidence that contradicts his "strong" (circumstantial) evidence of Piazza's PED use. 

Piazza’s back cleared up completely when baseball began testing for steroids and remained clear to his retirement. 

It's very possible he got treatment for his bacne or it cleared up as he played the catcher position less and first base/DH more, thereby not having his tight uniform directly pushing on his back as it did while in a crouched position behind home plate. Around the time MLB started testing for steroids, Piazza started playing catcher less. 

Murray's whole "Piazza had bacne and then it cleared up!" argument fails for me because it's very circumstantial and because Piazza's bacne can easily be explained by kneeling in a catcher's crouch for most of his career. Get in a catcher's crouch sometime with a shirt on and see how your back naturally arches slightly more than when standing at first base or sitting. Piazza had a tight uniform on and it was more directly pressured against his back when crouched in a catcher's position. He also played the catcher position during the hottest months of the year. Piazza may have used PED's, but there are other logical explanations for his bacne that Murray ignores. 

It was not a stretch to conclude that Piazza had stopped using steroids to avoid being caught by a urine test.

It's also not a stretch that Piazza got treatment for his bacne or his bacne started to clear up as he played the catcher position less and less. What is a stretch is using bacne as "strong evidence" and (damn you Murray for making me take my eye off the ball here) using some rumor you heard about Jeff Bagwell's PED use, then basing your Hall of Fame vote on this rumor without doing ANY research into whether the rumors were true or not. It's terrible journalism and is an embarrassment to those baseball writers who vote for the Hall of Fame. I wish Murray had not been lying when he stated he was giving up his Hall of Fame vote if Jack Morris didn't get in. It would have allowed a voter who actually cares to do research and base his vote on the research he/she has done to have a vote, rather than a bitter old man to base his Hall of Fame vote on rumors that support what he wants to believe.

Tuesday, February 11, 2014

7 comments Ten Things I Think I Think Peter King Has Not Thought of: Baseball Hall of Fame Voting Reactions Edition

I'm pretty tired of the reactions to the Baseball Hall of Fame inductee announcement and the debate that surrounds it. Don't get me wrong, I could write about it for an entire month, but I would be repeating myself quite a bit. Since I have a ton of links saved up about the baseball Hall of Fame I figured I would dust off "Ten Things I Think I Think Peter King Has Not Thought of," which is basically a cheap way of clearing out all the links I have saved up in my bookmarks. These are articles that don't deserve (or I don't feel like deserve) a full takedown on this site, but still deserve recognition for the awfulness (and sometimes non-awfulness) contained in them. I haven't done one of these in over three years, and yes, I realize I sometimes do five items and not ten. Being lazy is hard work.

1. Terence Moore tells us the Hall of Fame voting process is almost perfect. It's so shocking for Terence to take a stance like this. If the Hall of Fame voting wasn't perfect then that would mean it needs to be changed and Terence is against change in baseball...except for the one game Wild Card playoff which he thinks is a brilliant idea. This opinion has nothing to do with his affiliation at MLB.com of course.

As for the truth, the voting process for Hall of Famers is almost flawless, and I'm not saying that just because I'm among the voting members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America. Maybe I'm a little biased, but here's an example of why I'm more objective than not when it comes to the big picture of this Cooperstown thing: Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Frank Thomas. Heard of them? 

This is a real jewel of a sentence. Terence says he may be a little biased because he's a voter for the baseball Hall of Fame, but he's also more objective than not. So Terence believes himself to be a little biased, as well as objective. Hmmm...

Then there is the future, where the list of undisputed Hall of Fame picks stretches from now into forever. In 2015, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez and Gary Sheffield will lead first-timers on the ballot, and if Biggio doesn't get in this year, he'll do so next year. In '16, there is Ken Griffey Jr., and that's more than enough. Then comes a drought in '17 -- well, unless holdovers such as Trevor Hoffman or Curt Schilling make Cooperstown. But '18 will give us Chipper Jones, and then we'll have some Yankees in '19, with Mariano Rivera and Andy Pettitte. Jim Thome didn't wear pinstripes, but he also could be in that class.

You get the idea. When you combine the picks of the Expansion Era Committee of those legendary managers with what the BBWAA voters will announce Wednesday and with all of those Cooperstown entrees to come beyond this year, the Hall of Fame selection process is working just fine, thank you.

Terence is basing his belief the Hall of Fame voting process is working fine on FUTURE inductions into the baseball Hall of Fame of course. What if Randy Johnson isn't voted into the Hall of Fame, Craig Biggio never makes it in, or Gary Sheffield doesn't make it because of his suspected PED use? What if Pettitte is left out or Thome gets the stench of PED's surrounding him? At that point, is the voting process working? It's silly to use future inductions as an example of how the voting system is working, but that's Terence Moore.

Which brings us back to No. 5 and the words "integrity" and "character." Which eliminates any player involved with PEDs. Which shoves Bonds, Clemens, Sosa and others away from Cooperstown's city limits. That otherwise terrific trio represented the first wave of players from the Steroid Era destined to fall shy of the 75 percent of the votes needed during a given year to reach Cooperstown. Good. That's even more vindication for the Hall of Fame voting process.

Except for the fact Jeff Bagwell won't make it and he is being eliminated in large part because of his suspected PED use. That's vindication for the different standards each Hall of Fame voter uses to elect players into the Hall of Fame and is a reason to make slight changes to the process.

Here's more vindication: The present, where Hall of Famer voters get it. We really do, especially since Maddux will come as close to a 100-percent lock for Cooperstown as you can get.

So further proof the voting process works is that obvious Hall of Fame inductees are inducted into the Hall of Fame? That's like saying your washer isn't broken because it gets the clothes wet isn't it? It's not a question of whether the obvious candidates get in, but a matter of the different standards used by different voters that some have an issue with.

I have a problem with that. If you were a Hall of Famer after you retired, you remain one forever. So why play first-ballot games? But remember: I said the voting process was almost flawless.

And he's objectively biased when he says this.

2. Michael Knisley has a pretty good article up on ESPN.com about PED-affiliated players falling off the ballot. He talks specifically about Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire. It turns out only Palmeiro fell off the ballot for next year.

And once they're off the writers' ballot, their Cooperstown prospects are gone forever, or at least until some future incarnation of a Veterans Committee fringes them in.

(Overwrought aside: How much do we perceive a player inducted on a Veterans Committee vote to be a sort of second-class Hall citizen? If, say, Dick Allen or Keith Hernandez is ever admitted that way, do we place him at a mind's-eye table near the back of the room, or do we seat him up on the Ruth-Aaron-Gehrig dais in a sort of one-for-all Hall of Fame democracy? Just askin', 'cause I struggle with that question myself.)

I have to admit I'm not entirely sure how to treat these Veterans Committee inductees myself. It sort of feels like a cheap way to get players into the Hall of Fame that never really had support to be inducted, but the Veterans Committee decides to overrule the electorate anyway because they like certain players.

And as much as I wonder about what the Hall will be, what it will mean, without Palmeiro, McGwire and Sosa, I can't make any sense at all of a future writers' vote that puts Clemens and Bonds into the Hall of Fame when we didn't see our way clear to send those other three.

I view the baseball Hall of Fame as a museum where fans can go and look at the legacy of baseball players. In this line of thought, museums often contain some negative images or ideas that were popular but are preserved because it's part of the history the museum wants to represent. So for me, I vote Clemens and Bonds into the Hall of Fame if I view it from the standpoint it is like a museum. Include the legacy of the Steroid Era, embrace it, don't run from it, and I think it makes the Hall of Fame more complete.

I look at it this way: The debate as it pertains to PEDs is a tension between those who want the Hall to celebrate the best in baseball and those who want the best in baseball to be worthy of the Hall's celebration. I side with the second half of that dynamic. No apologies, even if it means that little baseball museum in Cooperstown might have a different feel to it next Thursday morning than it does right now.

You don't have to apologize, but know guys like Whitey Ford and Gaylord Perry are known cheaters who are in the baseball Hall of Fame. Perry has bragged about throwing a spitball, so I'm not sure in that aspect he is worthy of the Hall's celebration. But hey, I'm sure the voters thought long and hard about the integrity clause when inducting Perry.

3. Rick Morrissey blames the players for creating a climate of distrust. While I see where he is going with this, the doubts and distrust are something relative to each voter. So the players create the climate of distrust, but it's the voter's job to sort through this climate and determine which players and why don't deserve this distrust. This column comes off as more of a power play on Rick Morrissey's part than an actual statement that means anything. He doesn't have to vote for players he thinks used PED's and he is going to rub your face in it.

Everyone brings different criteria to the voting process. Mine happen to include whether I have even a sliver of suspicion a player might have used PEDs. The ones I’m not sure about don’t get a checkmark next to their names. It’s a subjective, severe and sometimes unfair method.

And I had an agnostic “no,’’ if there is such a thing, for Steroid Era guys such as Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza, Luis Gonzalez and Jeff Kent.

I can’t emphasize this enough: I’m not sorry about any of it.

Well, the voting is about Rick Morrissey and what he is sorry for. 

Don’t blame me for the people who didn’t get into the Hall. Blame an era. Blame the dirty players (and there were a lot of them) for creating an atmosphere heavy with distrust. Blame Major League Baseball if you think it was either complicit in the Steroid Era or looked the other way. I don’t care.

While I understand Rick Morrissey has already stated it's not fair, I'm not sure this statement prevents me from asking why guys who Morrissey assumes PED's are left off his Hall of Fame ballot? Is it really right for Craig Biggio to not be inducted into the Hall of Fame because other players have cast suspicion on him? 

I get to vote how I want, for whom I want and by whatever yardstick I want. That’s how it works when you walk into a voting booth, isn’t it? You bring in all your experiences, opinions and prejudices.

Actually no, that's not how it is supposed to work. When voting for the baseball Hall of Fame all prejudices and biases should be set aside in favor of electing the best players in baseball history into the Hall of Fame. If I am a voter who hates the Yankees, does this mean I use my prejudice against the Yankees and refuse to give Mariano Rivera or Derek Jeter my vote? That's acceptable? 

I’ve been asked how I can be so sure Thomas didn’t take steroids. The answer, of course, is that I can’t be sure about anyone. But Thomas was always big. He had thick arms and legs when he was a kid and when the Sox called him up in 1990. Take a look at photos of Sosa and Bonds when they debuted and tell me if they look anything like the heavily muscled beasts they became.

Frank Thomas as a rookie. Frank Thomas near the end of his career.


I don't know. I don't think Frank Thomas used steroids and I think Barry Bonds did, but Frank Thomas did get bigger as he aged and hit 39 home runs as a 38-year old. 

Voting for former players who took drugs legitimizes PED usage. It sends a terrible message to young athletes. I guess that makes me hopelessly unsophisticated. Not sorry about that, either.

Fine then. I have always laughed at these sportswriters who get worked up over the PED era while completely ignoring the era of greenie use because it's not convenient for them to do so. After all, those players from the 60's and 70's are legends. No need to touch their legacy.

4. Steve Wulf wonders if there could be a new baseball Hall of Fame. It's an interesting idea, but MLB would never allow this to happen.

I realize the HOF vote is no longer about honoring baseball. It's about arguing over it. Some boob voted for 148-game winner Aaron Sele last year. Another stooge voted for Jacque Jones this year. What if the Jacque-backer didn't vote for Craig Biggio, who came up two votes short?

The dysfunctional and anachronistic voting process has rendered the institution irrelevant. Surely, there were more than three worthy inductees on this remarkably rich slate. And here's where my fury gives way to fear.

What if there were another shrine to the game? What if an entrepreneur came along and decided to erect a temple that better reflected reality, made history more readily accessible, catered to a new generation of fans?

I don't think this should make anyone fearful. If a person wanted to open another hall of fame for baseball then it would be interesting, but I'm not sure it would be successful without the backing of MLB. 

What if it celebrated Ruth and Rose and Ryan and didn't bother with Faber and Ferrell and Flick?

Well, in that case the hall of fame would be incomplete, just like many think the current Hall of Fame is incomplete without Bonds, Rose, and Clemens.

What if it waived the five-year wait, knowing that it didn't need a bunch of writers to tell people that certain players -- Derek Jeter, for instance -- were worthy of inclusion?

I like the waiting period. It gives sportswriters time to cool off the hyperbole they will write about the player while casting that player has a "first ballot Hall of Famer."

What if instead of plaques, it had holograms of the game's legends? What if it made use of technology and creativity to put visitors right in the dugout to sit beside Casey Stengel and watch Mickey Mantle play?

That would be cool, though if this hall of fame were to be successful then in fifty years it would have the same issue the current Hall of Fame has, where visitors may not always remember who Casey Stengel was and it could seem dated.

There would be problems, of course. Major League Baseball would surely fight such a venture, wielding copyright laws and making its displeasure known to the baseball stars tempted by the venture.

This is one of the reasons I don't believe another hall of fame would work. MLB has copyrights to many of the film and other aspects that would make this new hall of fame so fun to attend. It's quite possible MLB would fight in court to ensure the new hall of fame could not even use the Yankees logo. It would then be like an early 90's Nintendo baseball game without the rights to the player's names. It can be the Ken Griffey Jr. Baseball Hall of Fame (and yes, I went in and changed the names of every player on that game to the correct name...I had very few friends as a child).

But I do want the so-called guardians of baseball to realize that they are hurting the game by turning it into an internecine War of the Nerds. Don't deny Biggio because of some arcane reason or twisted math. He had 3,000 hits, for heaven's sake.

While I sigh at the idea of using 3,000 hits as a primary measure for why Biggio should be in the baseball Hall of Fame, I do agree with the sentiment.

Make the F about their Fame and not your Folly.

And ask yourself: What if paradise gets lost because of your reluctance to change?

That's a sentence I never thought a guy like Steve Wulf would write. In the end, a new hall of fame wouldn't work because MLB wouldn't let it work. It would be defamed as the PED Hall of Fame by BBWAA members as well. I think Murray Chass would have a heart attack if another hall of fame were built.

5. Jon Heyman, the shill for Scott Boras, thinks PED users should not make the Hall of Fame...yet. The difference in why these PED users should make it in five years and not now eludes me even after I read the column.

Faced with a Hall of Fame ballot stacked with all-time greats, generational greats and just plain old regular greats, there's been a predictable chorus of complaints by voting sportswriters who've been forced by the 10-player limit to omit candidates they believe are worthy (though maybe not quite as worthy as the 10 they did include).

The fact the arbitrary cut-off is at 10 players doesn't mean the 11th player isn't worthy of Hall of Fame induction.

Next year, I will reconsider them all. But I'm not close to being ready to squeeze a clean guy off the ballot so I can put a steroid guy onto the ballot, as it appears many others are. The result is a ballot I can be proud of (even if it's a ballot sure to draw internet ridicule). Admittedly, mine is not a ballot with the 10 most accomplished, or even, quite likely, the 10 best players.

This is some crazy-ass logic to me. Barry Bonds is worthy of Hall of Fame induction if the only other guys on the ballot is Trevor Hoffman, but when put up against more "worthy" inductees all of a sudden Barry Bonds isn't Hall of Fame-worthy. I get rewarding a clean player and not rewarding a steroid guy. That I can get, but isn't the steroid guy getting rewarded by being elected into the Hall of Fame during a "down" year anyway? It's a reward for his career achievements just in the same way a clean player is being rewarded by being first in line to the Hall of Fame. No matter the place in line, the reward is the same. I say if Jon Heyman is going to vote for a steroid guy, then just do it. Don't use fuzzy logic to push Bonds' induction back until he becomes worthy because other clean candidates aren't available.

Integrity.

Sportsmanship.

Character.

They still count. At least they do here.

Unless it is a slow year, in which case being able to attend the Hall of Fame ceremony takes precedence over these three words. These three words count until they don't need to count anymore.

Still, it's a point lost by many nowadays, as steroids, performance enhancers, and cheating in general is becoming more and more excused as the way of an entire era.

And in slow years for the Hall of Fame, cheating would excused so that at least one player is inducted into the Hall of Fame. I can't believe Jon Heyman doesn't see the problem with his logic.

But no one's going to take away their trophies, the extra millions they made or certainly the at-the-time adulation. The only recourse is the vote, and the time isn't right to add to their accolades. At least not for me.

But if Bonds and Clemens have the accolades to be in the Hall of Fame, then why not vote them in now? Why choose to vote them in down the road when their accolades don't change, just the competition for a Hall of Fame spot is reduced?

All that being said, I understand the "yes" votes. I don't believe the new numbers guys are any less aware of the benefits of steroid use, nor do I believe they are any less moral. I just think their whole thing is stats, and they don't know how to account for steroids, so they just ignore them. Or mostly ignore them.

Well, then tell us the great and power Jon Heyman, how do you account for steroids? Give us the lowdown on how to account for steroids because I would love to know as a perceived stats guy how I am supposed to account for them since numbers are all I know. Yeah, exactly. Jon Heyman doesn't know how to account for steroids either.

That's OK. It's their call, their right. And I get it; those guys were undeniably great players. I can't do it, though. So, without further ado, here are my honest, honorable, deserving 10 players.

And the undeserving players may become more deserving depending on how strong the Hall of Fame class is down the road. I'll save Jon Heyman's ballot for another day because I don't perceive it to be worthy right now, but if there are fewer interesting articles to write about one week, maybe his ballot will suddenly become worthy of being discussed on this blog.

6. Drew Sharp doesn't understand why the Hall of Fame is intentionally snubbing the 1984 Detroit Tigers team. They won the World Series title after all. I want to know why the 2001 Arizona Diamondbacks are being snubbed. Curt Schilling and Luis Gonzalez are winners, don't all World Series champions deserve to be in the Hall of Fame?

But I still can’t understand why the 1984 Detroit Tigers remain the most disrespected World Series champion among the Hall of Fame electorate. Jack Morris doesn’t possess the bevy of individual accolades that dazzle the statistically inclined...His three World Series rings from a nine-year period as respective staff ace for three teams (Tigers, Twins and Blue Jays) attest to that special clutch gene that so few competitors possess.

Jim Leyritz had that clutch gene too. Where's his Hall of Fame plaque?

Alan Trammell likely won’t come anywhere close to the necessary 75% for election. And how Lou Whitaker didn’t garner enough voting support to last beyond his first appearance on the ballot 14 years ago remains one of the great injustices in Hall of Fame voting history.

I think the answer is clear. The Hall of Fame hates the 1984 Detroit Tigers. There's no other explanation for why Jack Morris isn't in the Hall of Fame.

If they played in the day of the 24/7 MLB Network and limitless cable television access to a dozen games a day, Morris’ combustibility coupled with that fiery competitiveness would have made a more captivating national narrative.

The evolution of the Trammell-Whitaker infield pairing from when they debuted together in the final days of the 1977 season through their career inseparability would have taken more of a star turn.

And if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump it's ass on the ground.

I'm not against Alan Trammel or Lou Whitaker being in the Hall of Fame necessarily, but the idea where Drew Sharp is connecting a lack of exposure to these players not being in the Hall of Fame speaks to issues with the process. If voters aren't able to evaluate a player without evaluating the hype around that player, then I'm not sure that voter should be electing players into the Hall of Fame.

Justin Verlander could retire today and make a more compelling argument for getting into the Hall of Fame in another five years than Morris.

This says a lot of about Jack Morris and his candidacy.

Verlander arguably has accomplished more in eight years than Morris achieved in his entire career — two no-hitters and a couple of near misses, an American League Most Valuable Player Award and Cy Young Award in the same year (and he was a few votes shy of winning a consecutive Cy Young). Verlander has three AL strikeout titles. He won the pitching Triple Crown in 2011 (first in wins, strikeouts and ERA).

Now see, THAT is what a Hall of Fame pitcher's resume is supposed to look like.

But he has pitched terribly in two World Series.

This would possibly be a relevant point if Verlander was a borderline Hall of Fame candidate (much like Morris is, except the candidacy of Morris is based on his postseason record and hyperbole), but he isn't. The fact Verlander hasn't pitched well in the World Series doesn't mean Jack Morris has a better candidacy because he pitched well in some (not all) World Series games.

Getting Morris into the Hall won’t excuse ignoring Trammell and Whitaker, but it would be hopeful start in the right direction.

Notice how this column went from "The 1984 Detroit Tigers are overlooked" into "Jack Morris needs to be in the Hall of Fame"?

7. Jerry Green also voted for Jack Morris, which shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.

A different young pitcher was running to the left-field bullpen. He started to warm up. He was going to start the ballgame in the place of the beloved Fidrych, who had provided excitement to Detroit sports during the doldrums.

Jack Morris remembers that night well because he was the replacement pitcher and he has talked frequently about his raw welcome.

“Fidrych was hurt, and when I ran out to the bullpen in left field, everybody booed,” Morris told me time and again through the years. “It was my first start.

Boy, I'm sure Jack Morris ran out to the bullpen in a dogged manner that showed how he was going to gut out complete games and be the best pitcher of a cherry-picked span of time. 

And he survived 6½ innings before manager Ralph Houk yanked him and went to the bullpen.

Jack Morris didn't throw a complete game? This goes against everything I've ever heard about him throw the hyperbole and anecdotal stories. 

There is no duel here. Maddux and Glavine will stuff Morris out of the competition. Jack goes 15 years and out, on to the Veterans Committee.

It’s a shame, a pity. Jack should have collected the required 75 percent of the votes years ago. One of his World Series victories was for the Twins, a 1-0 Game 7 epic in 10 innings over the Braves in 1991.

I wish the Braves had lost that game in nine innings 12-0 for a variety of reasons, but the fact this game is mentioned every single time the Hall of Fame and Jack Morris is brought up is probably chief among these reasons. 

This year, one of the 700 plus voters among us sold his — or her — Hall of Fame ballot to Deadspin.com. The person remains anonymous. The guy is a traitor, and once upon a time there was way to deal with those committing treason. A firing squad.

Oops, baseball is a game.

Hilarious. The funny part is Jerry Green's fellow voters act like Dan Le Batard should get the firing squad for allowing Deadspin.com voters to vote for him. He didn't sell his vote, but what are facts when lies work just as well in the absence of facts? 

That the best baseball team I ever covered —the 1984 Tigers — will have not a single player in the Cooperstown Hall of Fame. Only Sparky Anderson, the manager, has been elected to the Hall of Fame. And forced to choose, Sparky opted to go into the Hall as the once-manager of the Cincinnati Reds.

The process somehow should be changed.

I like how both old school voters and new school voters both want the system changed, but nearly everyone of them agrees that Dan Le Batard should not have done what he did in showing the absurdity of the current Hall of Fame voting system. 

8. Jay Mariotti is sad the PED bums ruined the day for Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and Frank Thomas. Not only are the proven and suspected PED users not being elected into the Hall of Fame, but now they are being accused of ruining the Hall of Fame announcements with their mere existence. 

When the occasion called for tributes to deserving Hall of Fame inductees, there instead was overwrought shouting about those tainted and shunned by the Steroids Era.
Read more at http://www.sportstalkflorida.com/a-day-for-the-greats-not-the-ped-bums/#1gJJqP9HGd1zkkqB.99
When the occasion called for tributes to deserving Hall of Fame inductees, there instead was overwrought shouting about those tainted and shunned by the Steroids Era.

On the day of the announcement I heard no one complaining that Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens were being shunned. I think Jay Mariotti lives in his own world where there is no reality, just Jay's perception of reality. Arguments that may never have occurred happened because Jay wanted them to occur. 

This should be their stage, period, yet in commentaries and talk-show discussions, you heard furious debates — again — about whether Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa and other presumed users of performance-enhancing drugs should be allowed through Cooperstown’s gates regardless of their chemical sins.

I actually didn't hear any of this. Most of the talk was about Dan Le Batard or the three inductees. Also notice how Jay is complaining these PED users are dominating the conversation but the column that Jay writes the day after the Hall of Fame announcement is about these PED users. So who is causing this conversation about the PED users to occur again? 

As a Chicago columnist in the Steroids Era, I realized early amid the McGwire-Sosa carnival that we were being hoodwinked.

Of course you did, Jay. Of course you did. That's why you wrote the article that doesn't exist about these players having used PED's? Isn't that right? You were going to say something since you already had it all figured out, but just didn't get around to it. But you totally knew. 

I was just as pleased to see a voter mock the process. Miami Herald columnist Dan Le Batard turned over his ballot to a low-grade web site, saying he hates “the hypocrisy in this” and that he always likes “a little anarchy inside the cathedral we’ve made of sports.” It is an unprofessional and self-promotional move, I realize, but in this case, it further taunts the voting farce.

You won't believe this, but in article #9 Jay rips Dan Le Batard for doing the very thing Jay described as being "pleased" Le Batard did. But of course. 

Last year, Cooperstown was a ghost town in July. No one was elected, making the Hall of Fame a casualty of the Steroid Era. This summer, Main Street will be booming again, with three players and three managers.

But Jay Mariotti will still perceive that the PED users will dominate the day and then write a story about how Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens overshadowed the inductions. There are few writers as delusional and willing to make up a reality for a column as Jay Mariotti is. 

9. Now Jay Mariotti has gone from pleased with Dan Le Batard to ripping him in the matter of one day.

It’s disturbing enough that ESPN has prioritized its multi-billion-dollar relationships with nearly every imaginable sports enterprise at the expense of a once-proud trademark — investigative reporting — knowing that it can’t rat out business bedfellows without jeopardizing lucrative deals. It’s also troubling that Fox Sports 1, supposed ESPN challenger, has fewer viewers than certain “To Be Announced” channels, this after reducing a quality web site to unreadable sophomoric mish-mash. 

Translation: Neither of these sites will hire Jay Mariotti. So he rips them until they hire him. 

 Bill Simmons? A blogging creation who masturbates to his rambling prose and couldn’t break a piece of china, much less a story. When Doc Rivers referred to him as a glorified fan, he nailed it.

I can't choose between Jay Mariotti and Bill Simmons. While Mariotti is correct about the first sentence here, he is also very jealous of Bill Simmons. Simmons got all the forums and opportunities at ESPN that Mariotti wanted and couldn't get.

In one sense, I was pleased Le Batard chose to protest the process by which players are elected into the Baseball Hall of Fame. Frustrated that perceived users of performance-enhancing drugs are being kept out of Cooperstown by voting writers, he didn’t use his vote this year. The system is broken — writers should be reporting news and commenting on news, not making news as the exclusive HOF arbiters — and Le Batard wasn’t afraid to voice his feelings publicly.

Jay likes it, but he didn't like who Le Batard gave his vote to. Deadspin makes fun of Jay Mariotti and has a grudge against them for this. 

Though I don’t agree about admitting the juicers — when their lying and denial have done irreparable damage to the sport, why admit them to a sacred shrine that celebrates what is right about baseball? — he does have every right to voice his contempt. Where he erred was stooping into the gutter of a trashy site, a decision that wasn’t supported by his ESPN and Miami Herald bosses.

This is an inconsistency in Jay's argument. Through this whole column he rips ESPN for being overly-corporate and kowtowing to their special interests, but when an ESPN employee goes against the special interests and doesn't do something the corporation doesn't like, Jay says that employee should fall in line with corporate policy. It's okay to rebel, just do it in a way Jay Mariotti likes. 

Why not use his ESPN platforms to deliver his message in a more credible, professional and sensible manner? “I hate all the moralizing we do in sports in general,” he told the trash site, “but I especially hate the hypocrisy in this. I always like a little anarchy inside the cathedral we’ve made of sports.”

Maybe Le Batard should have used a forum through ESPN to get his message across. The message was giving his vote to another site for their readers to vote, so unless ESPN was willing to let ESPN readers vote for players on Dan Le Batard's ballot, he couldn't make the point he wanted to make without having someone outside of ESPN vote on his behalf. 

the biggest brain cramp belonged to a writer who lost his soul and let a bunch of future burger-flippers smudge his career.

“Highly Questionable” is the name of Le Batard’s TV show, which he does with his father.

Highly questionable is how I would describe his judgment. Or just high.

Great way to end the column, Jay. Maybe the way Le Batard went about making his statement could have used some work, but rest assured ESPN wasn't going to be a part of any process where a Hall of Fame vote was chosen by someone other than Le Batard. Apparently it is okay to solicit suggestions on who to vote for, which is possibly what Le Batard should have done, but he couldn't have made the point he wanted to make and done it through ESPN.

10. Craig Biggio missed by two votes. Two votes. I would be pissed if I were him at the writers who left him off the ballot because they affiliate him with steroids. I would also be pissed if I were him at the Hall of Fame voter who turned in a blank ballot. If anyone should have their ballot rescinded then it is the voter who turned in a blank ballot. That makes more of a mockery of the process by refusing to participate in the process at all.

Also, how is it okay to openly solicit suggestions on who to vote for like other Hall of Fame voters have done, but it's not okay to have others vote for the players they deem worthy and then sign your name to that ballot? It's nearly the same thing.


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